2022 Rosters' Unique Construction - Props to Elias and Duquette

[ScGO's]

I was thinking about all the different routes this year's players have arrived in the Oriole Organization.  There has to be some credit given to Dan Duquette who I always felt was the McGyver of Baseball GMs. Each year Angelos would give him a few paper clips, a drinking straw, and some rubber bands and tell him "Make it work."  I am however, going to give the most credit to Mike Elias because I believe it is his Player Development System and Philosophy that has allowed many of Duquette's acquisitions to flourish.  Both GMs deserve credit for acquiring solid talent through several creative avenues.

Below is a list of who has contributed this season (and who will probably be on the roster by September) and how the Orioles acquired them.  I have not included Stowers or Henderson quite yet as there isn't enough evidence that they will be called up, so really only 1 of Elias' draft picks have contributed so far.  I did include Zimmerman, DL Hall, and Louis Head as I think they will all be on the roster in Sept.  I did not include Tyler Nevin as I can't see him holding his spot much longer. 

Anyway, if this is a Playoff Roster, it is probably one of the most uniquely built and developed rosters I've ever seen, especially since much of it was acquired by two very different yet creative GMs.

A look at this year's contributors and how they were acquired

Elias Draft

Adley Rutchman '19

Elias Waivers

Ramon Urias '20, Jorge Mateo '21, Joey Krehbiel '21, Bryan Baker '22, Cionel Perez '22, Austin Voth '22, Louis Head '22

Elias FA 2022

Robinson Chirinos, Rougned Odor, Jordan Lyles

Elias Trade

Terrin Vavra '20, Kyle Bradish '20, Brett Phillips '22

Elias Rule V

Tyler Wells '21

Elias Milb FA

Spencer Watkins '21

Duquette Draft

Ryan Mountcastle '15, Cedric Mullins '15, Nick Vespi '15, Ryan McKenna '15, Austin Hays '16, Keegan Akin '16, DL Hall '17

Duquette Rule V

Anthony Santander '17

Duquette Trade

Dean Kremer '18, Dillon Tate '18, Bruce Zimmerman '18

Duquette Milb FA

Felix Bautista '16

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[now]

Thx for the summary. For me one line sticks out like a sore thumb:

Duquette Trade: Dean Kremer '18, Dillon Tate '18, Bruce Zimmerman '18

That, essentially, is the return for Manny Machado, Zach Britton, and Kevin Gausman.

Did DD wait too late or just get a D on the exam? I wonder where we'd be if those deals were done when they should have been done, in 2017... 

[deward]

3 minutes ago, now said:

Thx for the summary. For me one line sticks out like a sore thumb:

Duquette Trade: Dean Kremer '18, Dillon Tate '18, Bruce Zimmerman '18

That, essentially, is the return for Manny Machado, Zach Britton, and Kevin Gausman.

Did DD wait too late or just get a D on the exam? I wonder where we'd be if those deals were done when they should have been done, in 2017... 

Machado was going to be a free agent, Britton looked like potential damaged goods, and Gausman hadn't been pitching well. The return in 2017 would have been much better, but that team was still in contention around the trade deadline (IIRC), so trading their best player and star closer, with no obvious replacements on hand, would have been a tough sell.

[now]

2 hours ago, deward said:

Machado was going to be a free agent, Britton looked like potential damaged goods, and Gausman hadn't been pitching well. The return in 2017 would have been much better, but that team was still in contention around the trade deadline (IIRC), so trading their best player and star closer, with no obvious replacements on hand, would have been a tough sell.

Valid points. In that case they should have been traded before the 2018 season, for a better return.

[terpfan101]

7 hours ago, now said:

Thx for the summary. For me one line sticks out like a sore thumb:

Duquette Trade: Dean Kremer '18, Dillon Tate '18, Bruce Zimmerman '18

That, essentially, is the return for Manny Machado, Zach Britton, and Kevin Gausman.

Did DD wait too late or just get a D on the exam? I wonder where we'd be if those deals were done when they should have been done, in 2017... 

don’t forget Schoop and Brach were also offloaded and these guys are all they have to show for it. I made a post a week or so ago about quantity over quality producing pretty poor results for the O’s since 2000. Wish they had tried to get one or two guys in some of those deals instead of 3-5.

[ScGO's]

The 2018 Trades are water under the bridge now, but I remember thinking half way through 2017, "This team is not going to be able to go to the playoffs." Ideally, he would have traded everyone in the offseason after the 2016 Playoff Loss.

Waiting till 2018 hurt the value that Britton, Manny, and Gausman had.  Gausman had never really put it together heading into 2017, but was young and talented enough to bring a top 100 prospect at the time if he was traded. O'day was healthy then too, so DD wouldn't have attached his contract to the Gausman deal which did bring down the return.  O'day and Brach would have been traded for separate pieces as well, and they both were performing fairly well heading into 2017.

Manny actually was coming off a Megatron season in 2016. If Zach Britton were traded after the 2016 season as well, he would have brought back top 100 talent. Schoop is probably traded in 2017 in this scenario.

Dan probably wanted to trade them all after 2016.  His 2018 return was driven by ordered cost cutting, and to be honest, at the time, the return wasn't bad considering he had to wait till 2018 when their value was well past peak. We know he didn't want to sign Chris Davis too.  I still got mad respect for Dan, and I sometimes feel that if he got the freedom, he might have done something similar to what Mike Elias is doing now.

[ShoelesJoe]

Quote

If Zach Britton were traded after the 2016 season as well, he would have brought back top 100 talent.

People keep forgetting that post 2016 both Chapman and Jensen were free agents. As good as Britton had been that season nobody was going to give up top prospects for him when they could just sign either of those other guys. The timing was just bad luck for us. 

[OriolesMagic83]

6 hours ago, ScGO's said:

The 2018 Trades are water under the bridge now, but I remember thinking half way through 2017, "This team is not going to be able to go to the playoffs." Ideally, he would have traded everyone in the offseason after the 2016 Playoff Loss.

Waiting till 2018 hurt the value that Britton, Manny, and Gausman had.  Gausman had never really put it together heading into 2017, but was young and talented enough to bring a top 100 prospect at the time if he was traded. O'day was healthy then too, so DD wouldn't have attached his contract to the Gausman deal which did bring down the return.  O'day and Brach would have been traded for separate pieces as well, and they both were performing fairly well heading into 2017.

Manny actually was coming off a Megatron season in 2016. If Zach Britton were traded after the 2016 season as well, he would have brought back top 100 talent. Schoop is probably traded in 2017 in this scenario.

Dan probably wanted to trade them all after 2016.  His 2018 return was driven by ordered cost cutting, and to be honest, at the time, the return wasn't bad considering he had to wait till 2018 when their value was well past peak. We know he didn't want to sign Chris Davis too.  I still got mad respect for Dan, and I sometimes feel that if he got the freedom, he might have done something similar to what Mike Elias is doing now.

I wonder if Elias' rebuild would have been possible if Peter was still in control.  I don't see him being able to stomach several 100 loss seasons and insisting on the type of free agent signings that helped make the 2000's decade so bad for the O's.  I also felt like Duquette was hamstringed after he was prevented from going to Toronto.  It was like Buck and Brady sort of took over after that.  I don't think Dan really was in charge after that. 

[now]

14 hours ago, ScGO's said:

Dan probably wanted to trade them all after 2016.  His 2018 return was driven by ordered cost cutting, and to be honest, at the time, the return wasn't bad considering he had to wait till 2018 when their value was well past peak. We know he didn't want to sign Chris Davis too.  I still got mad respect for Dan, and I sometimes feel that if he got the freedom, he might have done something similar to what Mike Elias is doing now.

Interesting conjecture. I get your point about likely wanting to sell high, but as to how the talent would be acquired, I see old-school intuition more as Dan's MO, in contrast to the analytics-driven moves of the Elias team.