Perspective: August 18, 2021

[Jagwar]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Stowers and Henderson should be up.  Nevin and whoever else can go down.  
 

Now, we are getting closer to that 45 day cutoff and since they haven’t brought them up yet, you can argue that they can wait until then.  Every game counts though.

I think they should IL Hays.  That could be the other move.  Even if he is only out for the 10 days.  Give him a rest and let his body heal.  
 

Frobby pointed out yesterday how he closes well.  That’s true but if he’s hurt, he likely won’t close well.

Let him heal as much as possible.  McKenna is playing well.  You bring up Stowers.  You have replaced him at that point.

And (not trying to be a noodge)... How do you know for sure that Stowers and Henderson are going to actually do better than what Nevin has done? Prospects do struggle sometimes upon being promoted. Machado hit the ground running. It took Adley a month or so to adjust. I seem to remember Markakis struggling at first to catch up to fastballs. I don't remember how Wieters performed right away. 

For the record, I agree with your plan. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

And (not trying to be a noodge)... How do you know for sure that Stowers and Henderson are going to actually do better than what Nevin has done? Prospects do struggle sometimes upon being promoted. Machado hit the ground running. It took Adley a month or so to adjust. I seem to remember Markakis struggling at first to catch up to fastballs. I don't remember how Wieters performed right away. 

For the record, I agree with your plan. 

Rather obviously we don't.

Kind of a stupid question.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

And (not trying to be a noodge)... How do you know for sure that Stowers and Henderson are going to actually do better than what Nevin has done? Prospects do struggle sometimes upon being promoted. Machado hit the ground running. It took Adley a month or so to adjust. I seem to remember Markakis struggling at first to catch up to fastballs. I don't remember how Wieters performed right away. 

For the record, I agree with your plan. 

I already addressed this.  You don’t know.  Hell, Adley could struggle for a week and Chirinos be the better option.

In what now amounts to a SSS of games, anything can happen.

That said, the purpose is to put your best and most talented team out there.  Clearly, that includes Stowers and Henderson.

I would even argue that Cowser should be on there as well.  Maybe even Westburg although he had cooled off a lot and maybe isn’t the guy to be a big help right now.

[Jagwar]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Rather obviously we don't.

Kind of a stupid question.

Well happy Friday to you too. 

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Machado hit the ground running.

Sorta.  He played well defensively.  But in mid-September he was hitting .259/.287/.406, good for a .692 OPS in his first 179 PAs.  Then he had three straight two-hit games, but even at that finished at .739.  It's not like they called up 1966 Frank Robinson or something.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Well happy Friday to you too. 

Sorry but you knew the answer.

Just because it might not be an immediate improvement doesn't excuse not trying.

[Jagwar]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I already addressed this.  You don’t know.  Hell, Adley could struggle for a week and Chirinos be the better option.

In what now amounts to a SSS of games, anything can happen.

That said, the purpose is to put your best and most talented team out there.  Clearly, that includes Stowers and Henderson.

I would even argue that Cowser should be on there as well.  Maybe even Westburg although he had cooled off a lot and maybe isn’t the guy to be a big help right now.

I think that the crux of the argument is... they might promote Gunnar and Stowers and they would struggle to adjust, with lots of strikeouts on tap. Clearly they are more talented than Nevin, but the risk is that they would do no better. 

I think the risk is worth the potential reward, but I'm not sure I view it as Elias views it. 

[Hank Scorpio]

They definitely need some kind of a change, as they have been collectively terrible offensively of late. The good news is the pitching has hung on fairly well.

I realize expectations were low 4 months ago, but expectations change. And in this case for darn good reason. 

Removing Nevin and IL’ing Hays while promoting Stowers and Henderson would be replacing two RH hitters with two lefties, and I’m sure Hyde has issues with that in spite of Stowers OPS’ing higher vs. lefties this year than righties. 

I think they’d benefit from some kind of shakeup.

[DrungoHazewood]

15 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

And (not trying to be a noodge)... How do you know for sure that Stowers and Henderson are going to actually do better than what Nevin has done? Prospects do struggle sometimes upon being promoted. Machado hit the ground running. It took Adley a month or so to adjust. I seem to remember Markakis struggling at first to catch up to fastballs. I don't remember how Wieters performed right away. 

For the record, I agree with your plan. 

Nevin has a career AA/AAA OPS of about .740.  Stowers about .900.  Henderson .955.  That tilts the scale pretty heavily towards Stowers and Henderson.

[Jagwar]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sorry but you knew the answer.

Just because it might not be an immediate improvement doesn't excuse not trying.

Oh I agree totally. But pointing that out doesn't warrant a "stupid" modifier from the OH's Chief Curmudgeon. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think that the crux of the argument is... they might promote Gunnar and Stowers and they would struggle to adjust, with lots of strikeouts on tap. Clearly they are more talented than Nevin, but the risk is that they would do no better. 

I think the risk is worth the potential reward, but I'm not sure I view it as Elias views it. 

They might do that.  Vavra has come up and played well and isn’t as talented as those guys.  I think the risk of them struggling is real..of course, that’s why Stowers should have been up 2-3 months ago and Gunnar should have been up last month.

In August, the BP ERA is 4.10.  That’s about a run higher than the 2022 BP ERA for the team.  Goes back to whether or not they should have dealt Lopez.  The offense is struggling, going back to whether they should have dealt Mancini.

Whether you agree with the moves or not..whether or not you think they are doing the right thing by keeping those guys in the minors.  What can’t be disagreed with is that Elias is valuing (on a team he was quoted as saying will make the playoffs) the future more than winning this year.  His arrogance that his long term plan is going to definitely work and produce many playoff appearances is obvious.  
 

Im glad he’s confident in his plan and it seems to be working but he hasn’t won anything yet.  Don’t take for granted these chances because you never know when they will come.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jagwar said:

Oh I agree totally. But pointing that out doesn't warrant a "stupid" modifier from the OH's Chief Curmudgeon. 

I didn't call you stupid, just the question.

[Jagwar]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Nevin has a career AA/AAA OPS of about .740.  Stowers about .900.  Henderson .955.  That tilts the scale pretty heavily towards Stowers and Henderson.

Yes... I agree. They are both more talented and have had more success in the minors. My opinion on their impact in the final 6 weeks of the season is based on the risk that they would struggle with lots of K's, which wouldn't add much and start their clock. 

I'm a financial guy and an analyst by nature. It's all about risk and reward. You weigh all of the potential knowns and make decisions based on the overall goal. You ask all questions (even the obvious ones), make decisions and own the outcome. I personally want Elias to promote Henderson and Stowers, and remove Nevin and Phillips from the roster. I also understand why he might not do that. 

[Jagwar]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't call you stupid, just the question.

Ah the rationalization of a curmudgeon.

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions"

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Jagwar said:

Yes... I agree. They are both more talented and have had more success in the minors. My opinion on their impact in the final 6 weeks of the season is based on the risk that they would struggle with lots of K's, which wouldn't add much and start their clock. 

I'm a financial guy and an analyst by nature. It's all about risk and reward. You weigh all of the potential knowns and make decisions based on the overall goal. You ask all questions (even the obvious ones), make decisions and own the outcome. I personally want Elias to promote Henderson and Stowers, and remove Nevin and Phillips from the roster. I also understand why he might not do that. 

But for you to understand that, that also means that you believe in the guys on the roster that are playing ahead of them.

Are you saying you believe in them?