slower?? Mateo running style while attempting a steal.

[zweem]

During the Houston game , while watching the Houston telecast, one of their HOF analyst noted that Mateo went from a crouch to stand up in his first few strides. He said none of the great stealers went out of their crouch and that Mateo's style cost him a full step or so. Beyond my pay scale but any thoughts???

[Alasdaire]

I can't say for sure, but it absolutely could be the case. Baseball doesn't really train/develop speed as a standalone skill.

It's a pet peeve of mine when managers send runners on consecutive pitches or right after they just beat out a throw; ATP/energy stores can take up to three minutes to replenish in order to be able to fully exert on the next sprint.

Another recent example is when Mateo was thrown out on that attempted triple the other night. He lost a few milliseconds because he looked over his back shoulder multiple times rather than looking once and/or using the third-base coach and facing forward.

[Pickles]

I didn't hear that comment, and I haven't noticed this aspect of Mateo's running style, but I will make a point to take note in the future.

[RZNJ]

I'd have to re-watch him but if you watch world class sprinters they come out of their crouch pretty quickly.   I would defer to world class sprinters over the announcer but it's possible that Mateo does come out of it too quickly.

I do think one of the new keys to stealing second is to try and slide to the back of the back (the CF side).   You see all of these 2B/SS standing a foot or two in front of the bag.  When they catch the ball the make the swipe tag.   I've seen many runners safe, because the fielder simply couldn't reach them.

[sevastras]

Some info, I know it doesn’t address base stealing but this is the best I could find for speed portion. 
 

#3. CF Cedric Mullins - 28.6 feet/second
- #45 in average sprint speed among MLB baserunners this year
- Competitive runs recorded: 61
- Average time from home to first (in seconds): 4.17

#2. LF Ryan McKenna - 29.3 feet/second
- #21 in average sprint speed among MLB baserunners this year
- Competitive runs recorded: 20
- Average time from home to first (in seconds): 4.24

#1. SS Jorge Mateo - 30.2 feet/second
- #2 in average sprint speed among MLB baserunners this year
- Competitive runs recorded: 45
- Average time from home to first (in seconds): 4.17
 

This was as of June from-

https://stacker.com/maryland/baltimore/fastest-runners-baltimore-orioles

Edited September 1, 2022 by sevastras

[Alasdaire]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I'd have to re-watch him but if you watch world class sprinters they come out of their crouch pretty quickly.   I would defer to world class sprinters over the announcer but it's possible that Mateo does come out of it too quickly.

Short-distance sprinters are propelling themselves off of blocks with their feet and off of the ground with their hand, so they have to be crouched.

Longer distance runners start kind of hunched over, but they're facing forward and don't have to turn their bodies like a base stealer does.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Alasdaire said:

Short-distance sprinters are propelling themselves off of blocks with their feet and off of the ground with their hand, so they have to be crouched.

Longer distance runners start kind of hunched over, but they're facing forward and don't have to turn their bodies like a base stealer does.

Well, I think it's only natural the the lower you are and the more bent your knees are, the better push off you'll get even without blocks which is why every runner with a lead is crouched with knees bent in order to either get a good start towards second or back to first on a pickoff attempt.   Once you get the initial push off, it behooves any runner to get into the fastest running position which, of course, is straight up.     

[Alasdaire]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Well, I think it's only natural the the lower you are and the more bent your knees are, the better push off you'll get even without blocks which is why every runner with a lead is crouched with knees bent in order to either get a good start towards second or back to first on a pickoff attempt.   Once you get the initial push off, it behooves any runner to get into the fastest running position which, of course, is straight up.     

Honestly without video, I'm not even sure what the announcers mean exactly lol. I took it to mean that the best stealers started out less bent over so that they could get to the upright sprint position, and Mateo is too bent over. Which is plausible to me. And not something many baseball coaches would really point out/notice.

[Frobby]

Through late June, Mateo had 22 stolen bases and had only been caught 3 times.  Nobody was questioning his running style then.   Since then, he has 6 steals and has been caught 5 times, so now people are asking questions.   I doubt his running style changed.  I think other teams have become more aware of him and he’s been the victim of some very nice throws.  I did see one or two times where he seemed to get a poor first or second step, but that was just episodic, I think. 

[zweem]

I took it as Mateo gets too straight up while the "good ones' run with a leaning tilt.

[Moose Milligan]

I've found the corner of the internet where old fat white guys are discussing the sprinting style of a world class athlete who's arguably the fastest guy in the majors and wondering how it could be better.  

You guys get winded walking to your mailbox.  I think I've seen it all now.

[zweem]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I've found the corner of the internet where old fat white guys are discussing the sprinting style of a world class athlete who's arguably the fastest guy in the majors and wondering how it could be better.  

You guys get winded walking to your mailbox.  I think I've seen it all now.

"Since then, he has 6 steals and has been caught 5 times"    -----maybe it could be better????

[spiritof66]

I don't suppose that Mussabini guy, who worked with Harold Abrahams in preparation for the 1924 Olympics (as depicted in Chariots of Fire), is still available. 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, zweem said:

"Since then, he has 6 steals and has been caught 5 times"    -----maybe it could be better????

I don't think it has to do with his style of running.  I mean, his top speed is like 30 feet per second.  That's pretty elite.

Rickey Henderson stole bases off the pitcher, not the catcher.  Just read his biography, he wouldn't run unless he felt like he could get a good jump and that all started with the pitcher.  

[Alasdaire]

56 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I've found the corner of the internet where old fat white guys are discussing the sprinting style of a world class athlete who's arguably the fastest guy in the majors and wondering how it could be better.  

You guys get winded walking to your mailbox.  I think I've seen it all now.