Gold Glove Finalists being announced -- Urias at 3B, Cedric in CF, but no Mateo or Adley

[Chaka Garcia]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I will say, I am a bit disappointed in the Orioles lack of a hype machine for guys that could be up for awards.  Granted, I might have missed something but I've not seen anything anywhere on Twitter, Instagram, e-mail about how Mateo should be up for a GG.  Or Adley.  Saw some light Adley for ROY stuff but I feel like they just caved to the Julio Rodriguez machine.

I loves me some Adley, but Rodriguez deserves the ROY award. He’s already better than Adam Jones (O’s  icon) at the same age.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Chaka Garcia said:

I loves me some Adley, but Rodriguez deserves the ROY award. He’s already better than Adam Jones (O’s  icon) at the same age.

He's better than Jones but that doesn't mean he deserves the ROY award.  Adley was arguably more valuable in less amount of time.

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let me at least say that I’m very happy for Urias.  He did do an outstanding job at 3B and his stats reflect that.   He doesn’t get the oohs and aahs that Mateo does, but he was really good at 3B.  

Happy for Mullins too.  His case was a closer one.   
 

Probably raises Urias trade value.    Gunnar is probably going to take his job at 3B next season.   And with Westburg  starting the season at 2B and Ortiz getting promoted sometime during the season its going to hard for Urias to get at bats.  If they don't trade him this off season his value may drop if he can't get at bats next season.    He has no options left to be sent down to the minors to get at bats until there is an injury.

Vavra can back up Westburg at 2B early in the season until Ortiz is ready.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Probably raises Urias trade value.    Gunnar is probably going to take his job at 3B next season.   And with Westburg  starting the season at 2B and Ortiz getting promoted sometime during the season its going to hard for Urias to get at bats.  If they don't trade him this off season his value may drop if he can't get at bats next season.    He has no options left to be sent down to the minors to get at bats until there is an injury.

Vavra can back up Westburg at 2B early in the season until Ortiz is ready.

I just don't think you give GMs enough credit.

I don't think a single GM is going to give more in trade because a player finished as a GG finalist in 2022.

[spiritof66]

The statistical component of the Gold Glove awards comes from defensive scores compiled by a committee of SABR. SABR computes, I think each month, a Defensive Index for each player. "The SABR Defensive Index accounts for approximately 25 percent of the Rawlings Gold Glove Award selection process" by having those scores added "to the votes from the managers and coaches."  https://sabr.org/sdi/2022-08-28  The description of the Defensive Index is pretty general, https://sabr.org/sdi , and it's not clear to me how the SDI scores are added to the voting by managers and coaches.

There must be final SABR Defensive Index scores since the Gold Glove finalists have been announced, but the most recent SDI scores that I see posted are are as of August 29. In those rankings, Adley is second among AL catchers (but far behind Jose Trevino, who has the highest score among all AL fielders). The other highly ranked Orioles are Urias second in the AL to Donaldson (!) among third basemen, Mullins fourth among AL center fielders, and Mateo sixth among AL shortstops.  

 

[byrdz]

https://www.rawlings.com/gold-glove-criteria.html

"The Rawlings Gold Glove Award® represents overall fielding excellence, and it is not an award based solely on fielding metrics and statistics, nor does it factor in offensive production." 

Isn't the last bit contradictory?

 

Quote

 

SABR Defensive Index
The SABR Defensive IndexTM (SDI) is a measure of the number of runs saved by a player's defensive performance over the course of a season, compared to the average defensive player at that position. The SDI combines measures from six (6) different defensive data sources and includes factors that rate the defenders arm strength and accuracy, range and his sure-handedness, along with the number of “excellent” and “poor” fielding plays he makes. The SDI also incorporates a rating for a player's ability to turn double plays (2B and SS), fielding bunts (primarily P, C, 3B, and 1B) and scoops of throws in the dirt (1B). For catchers, blocking balls in the dirt and stolen bases/ caught stealing are also included. For pitchers, the SDI includes his ability to hold runners on base and control the running game.

A positive SDI number indicates that a player was above average compared to other players at his position this season. Conversely, a negative SDI number means the player performed below the league average at this position this season.

 

 

[spiritof66]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I just don't think you give GMs enough credit.

I don't think a single GM is going to give more in trade because a player finished as a GG finalist in 2022.

True, but the fact that Urias ranks so highly might lead some teams to look into his defense more closely, and if they like what they see they may come after him since they know he's unlikely to see much action at third for the Orioles. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

True, but the fact that Urias ranks so highly might lead some teams to look into his defense more closely, and if they like what they see they may come after him since they know he's unlikely to see much action at third for the Orioles. 

I’d think they’d be doing that anyway if he’s being discussed in a trade.  The only benefit I see is it’s sort of a check on what a team’s own scouts say.  Let’s say the scouts say, “his metrics aren’t that great but we grade him higher than that.”   I suppose there a GG nomination might corroborate the scouts and give the team a little extra comfort.   But I think it’s pretty marginal.  

[waroriole]

I’m sure it’s been said 100 times, but no Mateo and no Adley is some BS. The award is a joke, with no standards. 

[LA2]

I appreciate Palmer sticking up in a very Oriole way for Mateo on Twitter:

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jim Palmer

 

@Jim22Palmer

·

1h

 

Replying to

@RawlingsSports

@RedSox

and 2 others

No disrespect but any list of gold glove SS that does not include Jorge Mateo is bogus. Why, my eye test after Aparicio, Belanger, Ripken, Bordick, Hardy.

"No disrespect but any list of gold glove SS that does not include Jorge Mateo is bogus. Why, my eye test after Aparicio, Belanger, Ripken, Bordick, Hardy."

Edited October 20, 2022 by LA2

[Sports Guy]

Soto being on there is atrocious 

[Jagwar]

If Mateo isn't a gold glove finalist, I'm not sure I understand (or respect) the criteria they are using for nominating finalists. 

 

EDIT: and don't understand Urias being nominated without Mateo being nominated. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jagwar

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Let me at least say that I’m very happy for Urias.  He did do an outstanding job at 3B and his stats reflect that.   He doesn’t get the oohs and aahs that Mateo does, but he was really good at 3B.  

Happy for Mullins too.  His case was a closer one.   
 

Which is why I would argue for serious consideration for Gunnar to play SS... It is actually kind of impressive they got Urias as nobody talks about his fielding, even O's fans.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

I’m sure it’s been said 100 times, but no Mateo and no Adley is some BS. The award is a joke, with no standards. 

I mean, Jeter has, what, five? We know this is not a reality based award. 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, waroriole said:

I’m sure it’s been said 100 times, but no Mateo and no Adley is some BS. The award is a joke, with no standards. 

There’s a decent case to be made that Trevino, Raleigh and Murphy were more deserving than Adley.  Fangraphs has all three ranked above Adley.  All three rank above Adley in Rtot.   Two of the three rank higher in Rdrs.  I’m not going to argue that Adley was robbed.  He had a good case, but so did the three who got nominated.   Next year when Adley has a full season, he’ll have another shot.