SP Trade Targets Compared

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know why we should assume we will be worse. We have a young team with most guys entering their prime. I could see some regression in the bullpen but overall I'd say repeating last year's performance is a good baseline expectation.

It may be LAA's price is too high but it is not inherently stupid to ask IMO. 

There is/was some youth but there was also some vets that came out of nowhere after a career of not being good.  
 

And there will be more youth with growing pains, which is fine but you can’t ignore that likely possibility.

[health55]

What about 28-year-old righthander Chris Flexen, who had an ERA of 3.73 in 52 starts over the past two seasons before being relegated to the Seattle bullpen?

Flexen, who posted 3.0 fWAR in 2021, apparently comes with four increasingly expensive years of team control working off his vested 2023 salary of $8 million.

 

[waroriole]

7 hours ago, health55 said:

What about 28-year-old righthander Chris Flexen, who had an ERA of 3.73 in 52 starts over the past two seasons before being relegated to the Seattle bullpen?

Flexen, who posted 3.0 fWAR in 2021, apparently comes with four increasingly expensive years of team control working off his vested 2023 salary of $8 million.

 

He seems very fortunate to have a 3.73 ERA with the K:BB ratio he puts up. I don’t know why we’d want him in the rotation over what we currently have. Let alone if we add legit SP in the off-season. 

[waroriole]

I wonder what the Cubs plans are this off-season. They don’t seem close. I wonder if they’d move Stroman and what it would cost. 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I wonder what the Cubs plans are this off-season. They don’t seem close. I wonder if they’d move Stroman and what it would cost. 

I think they are closer than you think and their plan is to spend this offseason.

[oriole]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:39 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think most would consider Bieber a mid-rotation starter.  If you viewed him thusly than you wouldn't give up that package.

Bieber wasn’t in the OP and he’s not a mid-rotation guy. He only has a couple years til free agency though and that makes it really hard to justify giving up 6 years each of Holliday and Hall, plus more probably. Especially when it’s still debatable at this point whether the O’s are even a legit contender next year. 
 

I think if they’re to have any sustained success then it will be from a strong and deep farm. Trading away all your top guys for mere blips in the timeline of a hopeful contention window is short sighted. I’d love to have any of the pitching that’s been mentioned in this thread but not at the costs that I’m seeing discussed. There’s room in the payroll for a $30m+ annual salary for an ace. 

[sportsfan8703]

I really feel like our system is on the verge of blowing up with our 2nd and 3rd tier names. So trading them right now, would be selling a little early. We just had another good draft as the early returns suggest. No way can you trade Hall, until you figure out what he is. 
 

I’d like to see us bring back Lyles, and/or sign a FA, then see where we’re at the deadline. That’ll make our needs more clear and where we’re at in the standings. It will also give our emerging prospects another half season to boost their trade values. 

[Camden Yards]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

Bieber wasn’t in the OP and he’s not a mid-rotation guy. He only has a couple years til free agency though and that makes it really hard to justify giving up 6 years each of Holliday and Hall, plus more probably. Especially when it’s still debatable at this point whether the O’s are even a legit contender next year. 
 

I think if they’re to have any sustained success then it will be from a strong and deep farm. Trading away all your top guys for mere blips in the timeline of a hopeful contention window is short sighted. I’d love to have any of the pitching that’s been mentioned in this thread but not at the costs that I’m seeing discussed. There’s room in the payroll for a $30m+ annual salary for an ace. 

Does these transactions make us a legitimate contender?

Sign Rodon 5yrs $140 million

Trade for Bieber, Woodruff, Gallen, or Burnes

or you do a lesser trade or sign Clevinger maybe two years 25-30 million

Sign Veteran hitter

Sign backup catcher 

[oriole]

1 minute ago, Camden Yards said:

Does these transactions make us a legitimate contender?

Sign Rodon 5yrs $140 million

Trade for Bieber, Woodruff, Gallen, or Burnes

or you do a lesser trade or sign Clevinger maybe two years 25-30 million

Sign Veteran hitter

Sign backup catcher 

I think we’ve got to let 2023 play out a while before any of us can make that determination. The bullpen advances last year could be a mirage. Rutschman could have the dreaded sophomore slump. I’m not saying I don’t think they’ll be a contender, because I do. I’m saying it’s not a great idea to start trading away  great prospects just for the opportunity to have any player for such a short amount of time when the O’s are still in the infancy stage of contention. 

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, oriole said:

I think we’ve got to let 2023 play out a while before any of us can make that determination. The bullpen advances last year could be a mirage. Rutschman could have the dreaded sophomore slump. I’m not saying I don’t think they’ll be a contender, because I do. I’m saying it’s not a great idea to start trading away  great prospects just for the opportunity to have any player for such a short amount of time when the O’s are still in the infancy stage of contention. 

You have to trade guys.  You depth but its depth in similar positions.  The longer you wait, the greater chances run for players to start losing value and then you end up losing them for nothing.  You can't do that.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 hours ago, Camden Yards said:

Trade for Bieber, Woodruff, Gallen, or Burnes

You won't land any of those guys without trading away at least one of Gunnar, Grayson, Cowser, and Holliday, and I have a really hard time seeing Elias doing that at this juncture.

[oriole]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You have to trade guys.  You depth but its depth in similar positions.  The longer you wait, the greater chances run for players to start losing value and then you end up losing them for nothing.  You can't do that.

I’m okay with trading from the infield prospect depth, but other than that it’s pretty even across the board. There may be some surplus in the OF also, depending on Kjerstad and Stowers. But right now Kjerstad and Stowers don’t have much value and I really don’t want to let go of Cowser. 
 

Anyways, I guess it’s just subjective on whether you value the long term outlook or the short term more highly. I’d like to see the approach of trading the major league pieces that are more expensive and closer to free agency, let the prospects play in Baltimore, and finish it off with some strong free agency signings. Trade Santander this year, maybe Mullins, Urias, and Mountcastle the following year or two. Let Cowser, Henderson, and Mayo take their spots which leaves more room on the payroll for a bit signing when the need arises. 
 

Right now the need is front line pitching. Keep the prospects and just sign one of the many very good options on the market. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, oriole said:

I’m okay with trading from the infield prospect depth, but other than that it’s pretty even across the board. There may be some surplus in the OF also, depending on Kjerstad and Stowers. But right now Kjerstad and Stowers don’t have much value and I really don’t want to let go of Cowser. 
 

Anyways, I guess it’s just subjective on whether you value the long term outlook or the short term more highly. I’d like to see the approach of trading the major league pieces that are more expensive and closer to free agency, let the prospects play in Baltimore, and finish it off with some strong free agency signings. Trade Santander this year, maybe Mullins, Urias, and Mountcastle the following year or two. Let Cowser, Henderson, and Mayo take their spots which leaves more room on the payroll for a bit signing when the need arises. 
 

Right now the need is front line pitching. Keep the prospects and just sign one of the many very good options on the market. 

It is 100% false that by trading prospects, that you are looking short term vs long term.

 

[oriole]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It is 100% false that by trading prospects, that you are looking short term vs long term.

 

100%? That’s pretty bold considering we’re literally talking about giving up multiple high end prospects with little to no major league service time for two years of a proven player. You can debate the merits of both approaches all day, but “100% false” is about as hyperbolic as it comes. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, oriole said:

100%? That’s pretty bold considering we’re literally talking about giving up multiple high end prospects with little to no major league service time for two years of a proven player. You can debate the merits of both approaches all day, but “100% false” is about as hyperbolic as it comes. 

No its not. Teams can trade prospects and still look out for the long term.

You are acting as if people are saying to trade every prospect for vet help.  That's not the case. You absolutely, 100% can do both...as most contending teams do.