If the Orioles are to be contenders in 2023…

[LookinUp]

Is it fair for the organization to want to build on all of these prospects accepting that might mean 2023 is another growing pains year and 2024 is the goal for contention?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Is it fair for the organization to want to build on all of these prospects accepting that might mean 2023 is another growing pains year and 2024 is the goal for contention?

2022 was a blessing and a curse.  It was great to see them play over their heads and show us they may be ready sooner.

Otoh, evaluations aren’t close to being done and they need to be made.  So, if you play the kids and you fail, it will be you didn’t do enough.  But if you block them and don’t have much playing time for them and the vets aren’t producing well, you have backed yourself into a corner.

I think you play all the kids personally..but you have to add vet talent around them.

[Oriole1940]

Drop labels like veteran, rookie or anything else, and whoever plays the position best gets the 2023 job.  Try each of them and then make the decision. Probably will not be either or, but a mixture of all the  various groups of players, vets, rookies,  unidentified.  Come on Feb., lets go.   

 

[UMDTerrapins]

I think there’s a decent chance that we’ll start the season auditioning a number of rookies, with an expectation to make moves before the deadline that are guided by their performance and weaknesses that emerge early on. 

[RZNJ]

I think the current idea is to go with Westburg at 2B.   So that's Henderson at SS or 3B, Westburg at 2B, and Rutschman at C.   Where does Stowers fit in?   Yet to be determined.    I think they will try to stagger some of the others.   Obviously it depends on what they do in FA but let's assume we don't get one of the big 4 SS.   Then it's either Urias at 3B or Mateo at SS.    I happen to think it's Mateo at SS and Urias gets traded.   Then you've got Mateo as the incumbent who has to hit enough to hold off Ortiz at Norfolk.   If Mateo hits enough, then that's a good problem.   Worst case is Mateo doesn't hit and Ortiz doesn't hit at Norfolk.    But even then, there could be a backup plan of Henderson to SS and figuring 3B and 2B between Norby, Westburg, and Vavra (assuming Urias was traded).

The outfield certainly seems as though it's Hays, Mullins, and Santander, with Stowers at the 4th OF/DH right now with Cowser at Norfolk to replace whovever.    Also, Vavra is in that mix.

The question is what two bats is Elias adding and how does that pertain to the above?

Also, who gets traded for a bat or pitcher because it certainly sounded like there would be a little of that?

Without a crystal ball, it's pretty tough but I don't think the flood the opening day roster with rookies besides the 4 holdovers (Stowers, Vavra, Rutschman,  Henderson) and one newcomer (most likely Westburg).

Edited November 18, 2022 by RZNJ

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The outfield certainly seems as though it's Hays, Mullins, and Mountcastle, with Stowers at the 4th OF/DH right now with Cowser at Norfolk to replace whovever.    Also, Vavra is in that mix.

I assume you meant Santander, not Mountcastle.  God help us if RMC is back in the OF!

[tabletop]

The top 3 on the team last year in OBP were Rutschman, Henderson, and Vavra. I don't think that's a coincidence.

If they can add someone better than what they think one of the young guys will do then it would make sense. But, to sign someone because they're a "veteran" and there are too many young guys playing is how you end up with people like Odor and Aguilar.

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I assume you meant Santander, not Mountcastle.  God help us if RMC is back in the OF!

Yes.  Thanks.  I'll make the correction.

[LookinUp]

33 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

Drop labels like veteran, rookie or anything else, and whoever plays the position best gets the 2023 job.  Try each of them and then make the decision. Probably will not be either or, but a mixture of all the  various groups of players, vets, rookies,  unidentified.  Come on Feb., lets go.   

 

See, I'm offering a third option, where the first two are:

1. It's best to play these young guys because they have the most upside to compete.

2. It's bad to play these young guys because they're not ready to compete.

Option 3 is:

3. It's best to play these young guys now so they can work out the kinks and make the future of this org the best it can be.

Option 3 doesn't prioritize competing in 2023. It just hopes for 2023, but it still prioritizes the future. 

Note: this assumes we don't make trades to improve the current and future. Obviously, that's a real option.

[Frobby]

From Fangraphs’ offseason power rankings today (O’s at 19):

Baltimore is on the up-and-up. Enough of their top prospects have graduated (or are about to graduate) that the focus should be on improving the major league roster as much as possible. There isn’t one glaring need right now; the O’s should simply look to add talent wherever they can to help support their youngsters.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-power-rankings-the-beginning-of-the-offseason/

[Sports Guy]

I agree that Mateo is likely to start the season at SS and they will want to see Ortiz for another 4-6 weeks in AAA, just to make sure.

I think the team could look a lot different in June vs OD, especially at some key spots.

[turtlebowl]

I think the goal of the off season is add players in the lineup that are tough outs.  Can't have multiple holes in the lineup when you have free swingers going through slumps.  To me the obvious upgrades in this department is Mateo, Hays and Mountcastle.  Personally I would like to see Vavra get a shot in LF as I think he is going to be a solid major league hitter but with limited power.  I honestly see Stowers getting moved.  If they felt like he was part of this core I think he would of gotten more run last season.  Again, maybe they feel like he has too many holes in his swing and with him not being elite in the field where does he fit?  From my perspective if he could play first, Stowers probably gives you similar power numbers as Mountcastle with better OB skills but that may be a long shot.  

Just feel the organization is emphasizing a certain hitting approach and the guys on the roster that aren't capable of executing it will be replaced from the outside or players from the minors that are ready.

[Roll Tide]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

…is it wrong to hand over spots to so many rookies?

One of the things talked about on here a lot so far this offseason is the makeup of the rotation and the IF, as well as the readiness of a player like Cowser.

The Orioles could, in theory, have Westburg and Ortiz in the IF, along with another rookie in Gunnar Henderson.

Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall could be in the rotation.

Cowser could be in the OF or at least be there within a few months of the season starting.

Couple that with the youth of last year and do you feel we are expecting too much out of the young players in a year where contending should be happening?

We don’t have enough starting pitching IMO. Counting on Hall and his recent track record of struggling to get through 5 is a fools quest. As far as the infield goes I only want guys who are ready. Having surplus is a good problem to have. Dominate at AAA and you.l get the call.I’ve advocated for Benintendi and perhaps Correa who instantly will be 1 and 3 on the team with OBP. This team needs to score more runs. 
 

Elias mentioned a SP to lead the staff and 2 bats. I think he’s got it right. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

We don’t have enough starting pitching IMO. Counting on Hall and his recent track record of struggling to get through 5 is a fools quest. As far as the infield goes I only want guys who are ready. Having surplus is a good problem to have. Dominate at AAA and you.l get the call.I’ve advocated for Benintendi and perhaps Correa who instantly will be 1 and 3 on the team with OBP. This team needs to score more runs. 
 

Elias mentioned a SP to lead the staff and 2 bats. I think he’s got it right. 

And you could sign those 3 things and still have a ton of reliance on rookies and very young players.

[Aristotelian]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

From Fangraphs’ offseason power rankings today (O’s at 19):

Baltimore is on the up-and-up. Enough of their top prospects have graduated (or are about to graduate) that the focus should be on improving the major league roster as much as possible. There isn’t one glaring need right now; the O’s should simply look to add talent wherever they can to help support their youngsters.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-power-rankings-the-beginning-of-the-offseason/

Hello? Starting pitching is absolutely a glaring need.