Are the Orioles done?

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I do assume I have the answer

Exactly.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Exactly.

I know. I’m the man.

[Jammer7]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

So Elias got lucky last year with health, had some guys play well out of nowhere and benefitted from a down offensive year and the fences being moved back and now he’s infallible?  
 

He can’t be questioned? We just say, yep Elias is right. It’s fine that we didn’t upgrade. 
 

You can do all of that and have that thought process.  I prefer to field a better team though.

Come on, you know that isn’t what I am saying. All I said is you disagree with Elias, fine. Have at it. But if he is right, you and many others will have a whole lot of crow to eat. lol

I agree with you on some things. He did get good fortune on a few things, and that team overachieved. The fence made a huge difference, good and bad. The Means injury wasn’t unexpected, and that is really the only big injury. There will likely be some regression or injuries with a few pitchers. 

I think he is staying grounded, realistic in his expectations. He does not believe they are ready yet. I think he added a little value over 2022 with these moves, but not much. One year deals, so what. 

I think the McCann move was very underrated. The Gibson signing is likely to turn out to be better than most think. The Frazier signing, I am optimistic he can be a 2 WAR player again, but he has mechanical and timing issues he needs to fix. He’s a better hitter and defender than Odor. It’s a bit of an overpay to me, but I guess we’ll see.

At the end of the day, we do not know what he knows. We don’t know what the ownership situation really is. We don’t know how much they have invested in the infrastructure and coaching upgrades. A lot went into building the analytics group they have too. Their personnel costs off the field has certainly increased a lot. We don’t have access to all of the data they have, nor the opinions of their analysts and coaches that give advice on who they should sign, and what they can fix. Or what kind of fit a particular player might be in the clubhouse.

So, if it is wrong to take a wait and see attitude and have a little faith in a group that took a bunch of waiver wire pick ups to a few games within a wildcard birth, I don’t want to be right. 

[Goober Noodles]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I do 

Cringe.

I honestly do not get all of the criticism of Elias when more than likely he's hamstrung by limitations put on him by ownership.  I'm no accountant, but having just been through a corporate acquisition, I know that eliminating long term financial commitments is a huge priority during a potential sale.  We're also talking about the Angelos family here.  You don't know what you don't know.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Goober Noodles

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, Goober Noodles said:

Cringe.

I honestly do not get all of the criticism of Elias when more than likely he's hamstrung by limitations put on him by ownership.  I'm no accountant, but having just been through a corporate acquisition, I know that eliminating long term financial commitments is a huge priority during a potential sale.  We're also talking about the Angelos family here.  You don't know what you don't know.

Speaking of cringe….

Do you think ownership made Elias sign Frazier and block younger, cheaper players?  Think ownership is telling Elias not to trade guys?

[Orioles0615]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:48 AM, Jammer7 said:

I think they’re done, more or less, for now. Trades at mid-season make sense. Maybe they are ready to move Mateo and/or Urias then, and Westburg, Ortiz and/or Norby emerges as ready. Frazier and O’Hearn are stop gaps to buy time for Stowers, Cowser and the young infielders.

Adding ML depth to the rotation now? IDK. Gibson, Kremer, Bradish, T. Wells, G. Rodriguez, DL Hall, Voth, Watkins and Zimmermann should be just fine for now. You add Means in late July or August, hopefully. Elias will not want to block his young starters, unless it’s a true TOR, I think.

The additions are not sexy, no. They appear to be buying time for their prospects, while improving incrementally in 2023. 

Midseason trades of Santander and Mullins because we are either under .500 or don't "match up well" with playoff teams. Have to keep the rebuild going 

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Orioles0615 said:

Midseason trades of Santander and Mullins because we are either under .500 or don't "match up well" with playoff teams. Have to keep the rebuild going 

I don't think Mullins is traded because the O's have no replacement for him.  

I think Santander is traded at the deadline for several reasons.   That is the peak of his trade value.  It will fall after the deadline.   And Cowser and Stowers will replace in RF with Westburg and Norby replacing him at DH.

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Mullins is traded because the O's have no replacement for him.  

I think Santander is traded at the deadline for several reasons.   That is the peak of his trade value.  It will fall after the deadline.   And Cowser and Stowers will replace in RF with Westburg and Norby replacing him at DH.

The peak of his trade value is right now.

Historically, position players get more in the offseason vs the deadline.

You also don’t know if he will be healthy and/or having a good year next year.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The peak of his trade value is right now.

Historically, position players get more in the offseason vs the deadline.

You also don’t know if he will be healthy and/or having a good year next year.

True but I don't think Elias is ready to trade Santander and replace him with Stowers. Cowser, Westburg and Norby.  He needs to give those prospects 4 months  to see how they do.

As far as health and having a good year.  You are right.  But if either of those thing happen they have to keep him until next off season.

I think when Santander is trade it will be for prospects to add more talent to the farm.  Same with Frazier, McCann, Gibson and Givens at the deadline.  I am not saying the all with be traded but it depends on how Handley, Ortiz,  and Hall develop.

 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

True but I don't think Elias is ready to trade Santander and replace him with Stowers. Cowser, Westburg and Norby.  He needs to give those prospects 4 months  to see how they do.

As far as health and having a good year.  You are right.  But if either of those thing happen they have to keep him until next off season.

I think when Santander is trade it will be for prospects to add more talent to the farm.  Same with Frazier, McCann, Gibson and Givens at the deadline.  I am not saying the all with be traded but it depends on how Handley, Ortiz,  and Hall develop.

 

None of those guys are going to fetch you anything of any real value.

Santander is only traded in season if the team isn’t good/contending.  
 

[sportsfan8703]

We need to add a depth lefty now that Vespi is injured. When can players be put on the 60 day IL?  We could add Means, Johnson, and Vespi. 
 

I could still see us adding Wacha or another SP for depth. Maybe a bat like a Pham or Mancini. Our pitching depth could use some work too. 

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The peak of his trade value is right now.

Historically, position players get more in the offseason vs the deadline.

You also don’t know if he will be healthy and/or having a good year next year.

Trading Santander is tricky. He offers protection as a SH for bother Adley and Gunnar. That gives him a little extra added value to us. 
 

I do agree that Santander’s value is probably the highest it will ever be. It would be tough to turn down a trade for a SP like Pablo Lopez. 

[sportsfan8703]

As of today I still see some room to make a few little moves,

SP - Wacha or Cueto

4th Bench Bat - Mancini, Vogt, or Pham

AAA CF

AAA LH Reliever

[interloper]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

 

AAA CF

 

Good shout. Underrated need IMO. 

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Good shout. Underrated need IMO. 

That’s why Jake Cave was a sneaky move we made at the very beginning of the offseason. We just lost the waiver wire lotto game. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/center-field/available/