Jordan Westburg 2023

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

What exactly does Westburg have to prove?

He has had a .900+ OPS over 625 PAs at AAA across two seasons. His strikeouts have come down considerably at AAA. This against the best pitchers not on major league rosters.

If you think front offices should be encouraged to manipulate service time/maximize trade value at the player’s expense then fine. But there’s nothing left for him to prove; he has done everything the O’s have asked of him since he was drafted out of college as a guy who was already polished.

What if they are planning to leave him in AAA until a trade happens around the deadline? His value can’t be hurt if he continues crushing it can it?

[geschinger]

24 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

What exactly does Westburg have to prove?

He has had a .900+ OPS over 625 PAs at AAA across two seasons. His strikeouts have come down considerably at AAA. This against the best pitchers not on major league rosters.

If you think front offices should be encouraged to manipulate service time/maximize trade value at the player’s expense then fine. But there’s nothing left for him to prove; he has done everything the O’s have asked of him since he was drafted out of college as a guy who was already polished.

It's less about what Westburg has to prove at AAA and at what point the team decides it's time to move on from giving one or more of Mateo, Urias and Frazier regular playing time.  Personally, I think they should but I understand the reluctance with the team's success so far this year. 

Then on top of that Westburg also has to pass Ortiz in the minds of the FO as the next guy up whenever they decide to move on from one or more of Mateo, Urias and Frazier.

It makes no sense to bring him up while we have the status quo of Mateo / Urias and Frazier - he's better off playing every day in AAA than inconsistent playing time in MLB.

[seak05]

Can Westburg play 1b? (I know it hurst his value, but that position is um not producing very well right now)

[Alasdaire]

41 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What if they are planning to leave him in AAA until a trade happens around the deadline? His value can’t be hurt if he continues crushing it can it?

That wouldn't hurt his value to the team/league, but the player has long earned his shot.

I think you have to do right by your players not even just out of decency but to preserve the organization's reputation. Among other reasons, that matters when you're trying to coax draft picks, international free agents, and veterans into signing with you.

33 minutes ago, geschinger said:

It's less about what Westburg has to prove at AAA and at what point the team decides it's time to move on from giving one or more of Mateo, Urias and Frazier regular playing time.  Personally, I think they should but I understand the reluctance with the team's success so far this year. 

Then on top of that Westburg also has to pass Ortiz in the minds of the FO as the next guy up whenever they decide to move on from one or more of Mateo, Urias and Frazier.

It makes no sense to bring him up while we have the status quo of Mateo / Urias and Frazier - he's better off playing every day in AAA than inconsistent playing time in MLB.

Agreed that this is the holdup.

But consider this: if if those three were playing how they are now but the team was below .500 because the starting pitching wasn't as good and/or Cano/Felix never emerged, would they still have their spots?

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

That wouldn't hurt his value to the team/league, but the player has long earned his shot.

I think you have to do right by your players not even just out of decency but to preserve the organization's reputation. Among other reasons, that matters when you're trying to coax draft picks, international free agents, and veterans into signing with you.

Agreed that this is the holdup.

But consider this: if if those three were playing how they are now but the team was below .500 because the starting pitching wasn't as good and/or Cano/Felix never emerged, would they still have their spots?

I agree with you in that it’s important to maintain relationships in the game with players and agents for the purposes of future dealings. And if this continues after the deadline, I will take a BIG issue with this as he has more than earned a promotion. But as of right now another month/5 weeks in AAA won’t be the worse thing for his career. He’s going to get his shot whether here or somewhere else. And hopefully he succeeds and has a nice career.

IMO - he is our best most tradeable piece considering I don’t think we are moving Holliday, Cowser, or Kjerstad.

[TopGunnar]

It’s such bad faith operating by Orioles FO. Westburg deserves to be in the big leagues. More so than Ortiz( I know he’s in AAA)

[orioles22]

1 hour ago, Alasdaire said:

What exactly does Westburg have to prove?

He has had a .900+ OPS over 625 PAs at AAA across two seasons. His strikeouts have come down considerably at AAA. This against the best pitchers not on major league rosters.

If you think front offices should be encouraged to manipulate service time/maximize trade value at the player’s expense then fine. But there’s nothing left for him to prove; he has done everything the O’s have asked of him since he was drafted out of college as a guy who was already polished.

He can prove he can repeat what he did in April and May in June and July. There is no rush, and that has nothing to do with service time. Until there is room for in Baltimore after trades, he would be in the same situation as Ortiz with not enough playing time to go around. Better for the Orioles to keep him in Norfolk. We still have him for at least six years whether he comes up now or April.

[Alasdaire]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I agree with you in that it’s important to maintain relationships in the game with players and agents for the purposes of future dealings. And if this continues after the deadline, I will take a BIG issue with this as he has more than earned a promotion. But as of right now another month/5 weeks in AAA won’t be the worse thing for his career. He’s going to get his shot whether here or somewhere else. And hopefully he succeeds and has a nice career.

IMO - he is our best most tradeable piece considering I don’t think we are moving Holliday, Cowser, or Kjerstad.

That's fair. If he ends up getting the call by the ASB, then it will end up being whatever. But if it drags on longer than that and/or if this becomes the front office's modus operandi for multiple guys at AAA, that's when it becomes an issue. This is just the tip of the iceberg with these decisions in the years to come. Good problem to have though.

[Ohfan67]

7 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

It’s such bad faith operating by Orioles FO. Westburg deserves to be in the big leagues. More so than Ortiz( I know he’s in AAA)

It is not bad faith. That’s baloney. The major league team is incredibly successful right now and for the first time in years the organization actually has some real depth, not just a bunch of 4A slop at AAA. This is what depth looks like when the major league team is winning. Westburg is going to get his shot with the Orioles. I understand impatience to see this shiny prospect, but the Orioles are not treating Westburg poorly. That’s just baloney. 

[orioles22]

54 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

It is not bad faith. That’s baloney. The major league team is incredibly successful right now and for the first time in years the organization actually has some real depth, not just a bunch of 4A slop at AAA. This is what depth looks like when the major league team is winning. Westburg is going to get his shot with the Orioles. I understand impatience to see this shiny prospect, but the Orioles are not treating Westburg poorly. That’s just baloney. 

Exactly. Such drama. Now some of them are threatening to report the Orioles to the principal. I don't think they remember Bobby Grich.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Exactly. Such drama. Now some of them are threatening to report the Orioles to the principal. I don't think they remember Bobby Grich.

The best you can do is a guy that debuted before they struck down the Reserve Clause?

I'd say team/player relationships have changed since.

 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Exactly. Such drama. Now some of them are threatening to report the Orioles to the principal. I don't think they remember Bobby Grich.

No disrespect intended, but the era that Bobby Grich was an Oriole is unrelated to what is going on in 2023. Nobody making decisions is employed now who was employed then. And the process of making decisions regarding prospects is totally different than it was then. The financial structure of the game is not even comparable from that era to this one.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

No disrespect intended, but the era that Bobby Grich was an Oriole is unrelated to what is going on in 2023. Nobody making decisions is employed now who was employed then. And the process of making decisions regarding prospects is totally different than it was then. The financial structure of the game is not even comparable from that era to this one.

Many of them were not even alive then.

[orioles22]

Nothing about money or who was alive then. Just my favorite example of a player who had "nothing to prove" who had to wait his turn. He did OK.

[Bemorewins]

13 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Nothing about money or who was alive then. Just my favorite example of a player who had "nothing to prove" who had to wait his turn. He did OK.

It’s not the same game as it was then. It would be like comparing what Jonny U did to what Lamar Jackson does. Or like comparing Chamberlain to Jokic. It’s the same sport but a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME. Very little then can be compared to now, including how prospects are handled. I guarantee you that is not even a comp being used in Sig’s models. And it is not even a thought on Elias’ mind.