McCann activated Stowers optioned

[Pickles]

Just now, eddie83 said:

The days Vavra started over him may have been matchup based from the analytics department? 

They're not doing it for Ss and giggles I can guarantee that.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Pickles

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

I don't necessarily disagree with that at least as an outfielder.

But there's obviously a balance between win now and development, and if the O's think Vavra gives them a better chance today of winning games than Stowers, I get it.  I'm not sure I agree, but I get it.

I don’t get it. It makes no sense to me.

[Hank Scorpio]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But not every guy has to be versatile.

How versatile is Mullins? Mountcastle? Mateo? Hays?  I mean, some guys just play where they are supposed to play and that’s it. 

Yeah there is EXTREME value by the org placed on versatility. I'm not sure if that's a function of resting guys more frequently or what. I find it hard to believe that they're gonna get the same production out of guys playing out of position with frequency.

Not that I know better than anyone. Perhaps over the course of 162 it's an astute approach. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Yeah there is EXTREME value by the org placed on versatility. I'm not sure if that's a function of resting guys more frequently or what. I find it hard to believe that they're gonna get the same production out of guys playing out of position with frequency.

Not that I know better than anyone. Perhaps over the course of 162 it's an astute approach. 

And btw, how many of these “versatile” guys are even good defensively at multiple positions. 
 

Being able to wear a different glove and stand in a different position doesn’t make you versatile.

[SteveA]

30 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

BTW, I've never said that Stowers should play INSTEAD of Hays or Santander, just that he should be in the mix with them getting days off. I don't know if Stowers would outperform Hays or Santander, but I do think it's certainly possible. At the end o the day, with proper roster and lineup management, there was playing time and PAs for all three.

Right.   I think Hyde is doing a good job with the 4-players-for-3 starts situation with Urias/Mateo/Frazier/Gunnar (see Frobby's post breaking down how much each has played).   And they have used up just 2 DH games doing that.    Adley has used up 2.   You could do the same thing with Hays/Santander/Mullins/Stowers, where each one would have played in at least 6 games by now.   But they haven't.   Instead McKenna was in the mix vs lefties and Stowers was basically an afterhought.   I think the key is that they have Vavra ahead of Stowers right now as an OF/DH.    And that is why Stowers went down.

I think it all boils down to, in their opinion, Vavra>>Stowers and they fill the same role (corner OF/DH vs some RHPs).   You could argue that if they hadn't gotten Frazier that Vavra could fit into the infield mix but it APPEARS to me that they have made a judgement that his defense at 2B is simply not acceptable.

So I think the reason Stowers has been buried, and then demoted, is that the front office has made two decisions:

   1) Vavra's defense at 2B was not at an acceptable level to get any significant time there

   2) Vavra is more better than Stowers at filling a corner OF/DH role.

Couple that with the fact that McKenna has a role as a backup CF and the fact that he has hit lefties well in the majors, and wind up with Stowers being #13 on the 13-man position player staff.

Now you can disagree or agree with those two assessments... but if you take them as givens, I guess a lot of what they have done makes sense.

[This is not me agreeing with them or justifying what they are doing.   But when I hear a lot of people say that they are being stupid or not making sense, I have a natural urge to play devils advocate and TRY to see things from their point of view, because I don't believe they are stupid people.   So I try to analyze what I'm seeing.   And it appears to me they have made those two assessments and that led them to signing Frazier and to Stowers being the odd man out in terms of playing time at the MLB level.]

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t get it. It makes no sense to me.

This org has made it a point o prioritize good approaches at the plate.  It's why we're leading the big in pitches seen per at bat, per yesterday's broadcast.  Vavra has a much better approach than Stowers.  I don't find it uncharacteristic for this org to give a guy like Vavra a shot over a guy like Stowers.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Vavra doesn’t have close to the upside. Stowers can be an everyday player. Vavra can’t.

That’s a matter of opinion.  As a minor leaguer, Vavra has an .878 OPS, Stowers .847.   In AAA, .886 for Vavra, .863 for Stowers.  So what’s your reason to think Stowers has starter upside but Vavra doesn’t?   Is it just because Stowers has more power?

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Right.   I think Hyde is doing a good job with the 4-players-for-3 starts situation with Urias/Mateo/Frazier/Gunnar (see Frobby's post breaking down how much each has played).   And they have used up just 2 DH games doing that.    Adley has used up 2.   You could do the same thing with Hays/Santander/Mullins/Stowers, where each one would have played in at least 6 games by now.   But they haven't.   Instead McKenna was in the mix vs lefties and Stowers was basically an afterhought.   I think the key is that they have Vavra ahead of Stowers right now as an OF/DH.    And that is why Stowers went down.

I think it all boils down to, in their opinion, Vavra>>Stowers and they fill the same role (corner OF/DH vs some RHPs).   You could argue that if they hadn't gotten Frazier that Vavra could fit into the infield mix but it APPEARS to me that they have made a judgement that his defense at 2B is simply not acceptable.

So I think the reason Stowers has been buried, and then demoted, is that the front office has made two decisions:

   1) Vavra's defense at 2B was not at an acceptable level to get any significant time there

   2) Vavra is more better than Stowers at filling a corner OF/DH role.

Couple that with the fact that McKenna has a role as a backup CF and the fact that he has hit lefties well in the majors, and wind up with Stowers being #13 on the 13-man position player staff.

Now you can disagree or agree with those two assessments... but if you take them as givens, I guess a lot of what they have done makes sense.

[This is not me agreeing with them or justifying what they are doing.   But when I hear a lot of people say that they are being stupid or not making sense, I have a natural urge to play devils advocate and TRY to see things from their point of view, because I don't believe they are stupid people.   So I try to analyze what I'm seeing.   And it appears to me they have made those two assessments and that led them to signing Frazier and to Stowers being the odd man out in terms of playing time at the MLB level.]

It really is this simple:

Vavra is over Stowers in the pecking order.

You can agree with that; you can disagree with that.  But it doesn't change the material fact that the org has Vavra over Stowers on the depth chart.

So if you accept and understand that- not necessarily agree- there's nothing to be confused about.

[Safelykept]

10 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

This just makes me think about all the former Orioles we let go and who end up with division rivals and beating us. Guys like Lester Cortes, Franchy Cordero, and Kevin Gausman.

The Orioles should learn a lesson from their poor management of young players and stop letting those players talents go to a rival when it could actually help the team get over the hump. Imagine if they still had those 2 aforementioned pitchers in their rotation, especially Cortes the way he is now.

The same Cortes that pitched 4 innings for the O's 5 years ago the same Cortes that the Yankees did not hold to once but twice The same Kevin Gausman that the Braves and Reds DFA before finding his way in SF  who did not hold onto him, neither did Toronto who signed as a free agent. Was there  something about the 2018 teardown that you missed. Guess they should have held onto Manny as well. Franchy Cordero has never played a meaningful Minor or Major League for the O's has never been on their 40 man roster. Nothing like holding onto those young Oriole players that were never Oriole prospects. What else you got that good, you going to give the winner of fifth race at Gulfstream Park, 2 days ago?

[Ohfan67]

Stowers is going to get a chance to be a starting outfielder with the Orioles. There’s a very high chance this is Santander’s last year as an Oriole and maybe Hays too. And of course somebody is going to get banged up or have a prolonged slump this season.  Orioles fans aren’t used to having decent depth. 
 

Vavra is being groomed as a utility guy. Stowers is not. Going to Norfolk is better for Stowers and the Orioles than Stowers rotting on the bench. His time will come….and probably sooner than later. 

[Hank Scorpio]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Stowers is going to get a chance to be a starting outfielder with the Orioles. There’s a very high chance this is Santander’s last year as an Oriole and maybe Hays too. And of course somebody is going to get banged up or have a prolonged slump this season.  Orioles fans aren’t used to having decent depth. 
 

Vavra is being groomed as a utility guy. Stowers is not. Going to Norfolk is better for Stowers and the Orioles than Stowers rotting on the bench. His time will come….and probably sooner than later. 

This is a good point.

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s a matter of opinion.  As a minor leaguer, Vavra has an .878 OPS, Stowers .847.   In AAA, .886 for Vavra, .863 for Stowers.  So what’s your reason to think Stowers has starter upside but Vavra doesn’t?   Is it just because Stowers has more power?

Vavra has limited power. The OBP and Ba will not play at this level unless he hits for some power.  

He’s not a threat.

I hope he gets his chances too but they aren’t comparable talents.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Sports Guy

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It really is this simple:

Vavra is over Stowers in the pecking order.

You can agree with that; you can disagree with that.  But it doesn't change the material fact that the org has Vavra over Stowers on the depth chart.

So if you accept and understand that- not necessarily agree- there's nothing to be confused about.

Ok. If this is true then the obvious question is why wasn’t Stowers sent down to AAA before the season? Someone like Cordero could be on the team. 
 

If the Orioles are genuinely convinced of this it’s illogical for Stowers to make the team. They know he isn’t going to play much. 
 

This why I am speculating that circumstances led to this and Stowers will find his way back soon. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Vavra has limited power. The OBP and Ba will not play at this level unless he hits for some power.  

He’s not a threat.

I hope he gets his chances too but they are comparable talents.

Well, I’m definitely not as sure of that as you.  Time will tell.  

[Pickles]

Just now, eddie83 said:

Ok. If this is true then the obvious question is why wasn’t Stowers sent down to AAA before the season? Someone like Cordero could be on the team. 
 

If the Orioles are genuinely convinced of this it’s illogical for Stowers to make the team. They know he isn’t going to play much. 
 

This why I am speculating that circumstances led to this and Stowers will find his way back soon. 

Oh, he'll be back.  I still expect him to get 300-400 ML abs this year.  But circumstances will dictate that.  If Hays, Mullins, and Santander stay healthy and play well, he'll get less opportunity.

I too am a little surprised they sent him down after a week instead of just sending him down before the season.  But I think at this point, they want him to get steady playing time and that just isn't available in Bal. right now.