Ortiz vs Westburg

[owknows]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I think they would have had Westburg at first if they believed in him there. (Not sure why they wouldn’t)

I also  think Kjerstad and especially Mayo have higher upside and one of them is your long term first baseman.

I'm fine with a Mayo/Westburg 1B/DH duo...

And I'm look forward to Hays, Mullins, Kjerstad, and Cowser.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I am not sure the O's are higher on Ortiz. He was called up first but a big factor in that was that he was Rule 5 eligible this year, forcing him onto the 40 man roster earlier than Westburg. They haven't given him consistent AB's so it seems perhaps they view him as a utility guy who doesn't need to play every day. 

I really haven't seen Westburg play defense enough to have an educated opinion. He seems to have the more advanced bat and a lot more power. Ortiz has impressed with his defense but we don't know if he will hit enough to play every day.  

Is keep both an option? 

There is a chance it could be in real life but for this discussion there isn’t another option.

Part of the reasoning for that is that I think it’s very possible they will have to part with one of these guys to get the pitcher they want.

Think of it this way too. I saw someone say Westburg is playing a lot of SS in AAA since Ortiz got called up but we all know he has no future as a SS here.

Are they doing that out of need or to showcase him some?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

So I’m that scenario we get rid of Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, Frazier? 

 

Yes.

Quote

What do you think the value than any and all of them are to a rebuilding team? What can any of those players realistically bring back in a deal if they are not package with prospects/young assets?

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the question.

[maybenxtyr]

I don't see a reason why Westburg and Ortiz can't exist on the same team. 

 

Obviously Frazier will be gone after this season, and in my opinion they should soon pull the plug on Mateo. 

 

Henderson 3B

Ortiz SS

Westburg 2B/utility

 

At least under that scenario they can get a look at both at the ML level before crossing the JH bridge.

[Aristotelian]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

There is a chance it could be in real life but for this discussion there isn’t another option.

Part of the reasoning for that is that I think it’s very possible they will have to part with one of these guys to get the pitcher they want.

Think of it this way too. I saw someone say Westburg is playing a lot of SS in AAA since Ortiz got called up but we all know he has no future as a SS here.

Are they doing that out of need or to showcase him some?

Then the question should be who do you prefer to keep along with the return from the trade of the other. My best guess is they are holding Westburg back to better preserve his trade value. Doesn't mean they plan to shop him but they may want the option to do so. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

I don't see a reason why Westburg and Ortiz can't exist on the same team. 

 

Obviously Frazier will be gone after this season, and in my opinion they should soon pull the plug on Mateo. 

 

Henderson 3B

Ortiz SS

Westburg 2B/utility

 

At least under that scenario they can get a look at both at the ML level before crossing the JH bridge.

Maybe you can turn one of them into a Ben Zobrist super sub because they're going to have to make room for Jackson Holliday soon enough.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Maybe you can turn one of them into a Ben Zobrist super sub because they're going to have to make room for Jackson Holliday soon enough.

I think Westburg could potentially profile as exactly that type of player.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I don't see a reason why Westburg and Ortiz can't exist on the same team. 

 

Obviously Frazier will be gone after this season, and in my opinion they should soon pull the plug on Mateo. 

 

Henderson 3B

Ortiz SS

Westburg 2B/utility

 

At least under that scenario they can get a look at both at the ML level before crossing the JH bridge.

The decision needs to be made sometime soon. Holliday is coming and he’s coming fast. They didn’t take him first overall for Poops and Giggles.

He was excellent in ST and has been the best prospect in baseball playing in a league he is too young for and dominating it at a level we haven’t seen.

He will be in AA within a month.

You May be able to have them both this year and maybe even next year if they wait a few months to get Holliday up but either way, the decision is going to be there and it’s coming fast.

Add to that the need to add players this July and it’s just very likely one of these 2 isn’t in the organization by next season.

[forphase1]

12 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

So I’m that scenario we get rid of Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, Frazier? 

What do you think the value than any and all of them are to a rebuilding team? What can any of those players realistically bring back in a deal if they are not package with prospects/young assets?

None of those four are likely the foundation for the next handful of years,  so yes,  I'm fine to start trading them as we can if it makes sense or obviously not resigning them next year.   I serious doubt any of them are on the 2025 Orioles and a couple/few won't be on the 2024 Os.

[AnythingO's]

For me, I can't vote. I keep both because we need both a 2B and a Util IF next year. This is Hairston vs Roberts, if memory serves, Hairston was favored, got injured, Roberts won. Right now Urias is a more valuable trade chip than the #50 or #80 prospect. Urias spent 10 years getting to the MLB before we gave him a chance. He has established he will hit at the MLB level and has won a GG. Unfortunately here, he is a Util IF because we have Gunnar at 3B for the next 5+ years. Both Westburg and Ortiz can play all 3 positions, Urias isn't good at SS. Trade Urias, he has established value and has earned the shot to start somewhere. Let Westburg and Ortiz fight it out for 2B and Util IF. Urias might get you Rogers from MIA, their DL Hall.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, owknows said:

Yes.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the question.

In the scenario you propose we get rid of all four of those guys. If we are going to trade them as suggest, what value do you believe those guys hold? My assumption (maybe incorrectly) is that we wouldn’t just trade productive players for the sake of making a trade. But that the purpose of that trade(s) would be to acquire players that can help our team get better?

Does that sound reasonable?

[maybenxtyr]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The decision needs to be made sometime soon. Holliday is coming and he’s coming fast. They didn’t take him first overall for Poops and Giggles.

He was excellent in ST and has been the best prospect in baseball playing in a league he is too young for and dominating it at a level we haven’t seen.

He will be in AA within a month.

You May be able to have them both this year and maybe even next year if they wait a few months to get Holliday up but either way, the decision is going to be there and it’s coming fast.

Add to that the need to add players this July and it’s just very likely one of these 2 isn’t in the organization by next season.

I agree with what you're saying. I guess I wasn't clear with my end. I'd have Westburg up now with Henderson, Ortiz and Westburg in some alignment for the infield. At least that way they can look at some sample size and make a decision.

 

I'm not trying to hijack your thread but there's no reason other than his defense to keep playing Mateo. 

 

I agree about Jackson. Unless he has massive struggles in his next couple of promotions he could be starting at SS next season. I didn't think it was possible at the beginning of the season, more projecting later 24 or even the start of '25, but he's showing himself to be everything you'd want in a 1:1 pick and then some.

[maybenxtyr]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

In the scenario you propose we get rid of all four of those guys. If we are going to trade them as suggest, what value do you believe those guys hold? My assumption (maybe incorrectly) is that we wouldn’t just trade productive players for the sake of making a trade. But that the purpose of that trade(s) would be to acquire players that can help our team get better?

Does that sound reasonable?

I don't think there's a need to get rid of Urias right now. Frazier will be a FA at the end of the season, so that takes care of itself. 

Mateo is a different story. There's little value in him in my opinion. I know it won't happen, but if he's not doing better by the end of May I'd like to see Ortiz starting daily.

 

Mountcastle will be here until they either sign or trade for a 1B. Santander is a decent enough fill in, but he's probably not a daily option.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

I agree with what you're saying. I guess I wasn't clear with my end. I'd have Westburg up now with Henderson, Ortiz and Westburg in some alignment for the infield. At least that way they can look at some sample size and make a decision.

 

I'm not trying to hijack your thread but there's no reason other than his defense to keep playing Mateo. 

 

I agree about Jackson. Unless he has massive struggles in his next couple of promotions he could be starting at SS next season. I didn't think it was possible at the beginning of the season, more projecting later 24 or even the start of '25, but he's showing himself to be everything you'd want in a 1:1 pick and then some.

I’m more than happy to have them both up right now but I think it’s likely we need to deal one to get what we need.

Now, I’m in agreement about a super UTI role for Westburg and I would do that before trading him for a subpar guy.

 

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

None of those four are likely the foundation for the next handful of years,  so yes,  I'm fine to start trading them as we can if it makes sense or obviously not resigning them next year.   I serious doubt any of them are on the 2025 Orioles and a couple/few won't be on the 2024 Os.

Urias, Mateo, and Mountcastle are all under cost controlled under multi-year contracts.

You say that you want to trade them all. That’s fine. What kind of trade value do you think any of them have? 

I guess I’m asking - Do you want to trade them for the sake of trading them or do you believe that they are the best players to trade who will bring back the most value?