Who is the best defensive SS? Gunnar, Ortiz or Holliday?

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

The question is not would the keep Holliday down all 2024 if his bat was ready.   They probably would not.  The question is if Holliday's defense at SS is not has good as Gunnars will they move Holliday to 2B?

Why not?

I’m totally against any offense-neutral defensive alignment that doesn’t optimize the defense.  In other words, if Gunnar and Holliday are both in the lineup, the better shortstop plays shortstop.  

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

The question is not would the keep Holliday down all 2024 if his bat was ready.   They probably would not.  The question is if Holliday's defense at SS is not has good as Gunnars will they move Holliday to 2B?

If Holliday has to play 2B on a stacked roster/loaded infield, what's the issue? He gives us elite offensive production at the position and probably has a chance to enjoy making a few all-star teams.

I don't see the problem.

[banks703]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Why not?

I’m totally against any offense-neutral defensive alignment that doesn’t optimize the defense.  In other words, if Gunnar and Holliday are both in the lineup, the better shortstop plays shortstop.  

 

 

 

100%

[banks703]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If Holliday has to play 2B on a stacked roster/loaded infield, what's the issue? He gives us elite offensive production at the position and probably has a chance to enjoy making a few all-star teams.

I don't see the problem.

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

[Bemorewins]

56 minutes ago, banks703 said:

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

I don't care which position he or any of the other guys play to be honest. I'm sure those things will work themselves out. Henderson seems fine as a "bigger" SS for now (in the Seager mold). Holliday and Westburg are fine for 2B and 3B. Only one player can play SS at a time.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

You are comparing a 1/1 to 1/30 and later players. They don't have nearly the pedigree of Holliday. I agree with you overall but the comparison is not apples to apples. It would be more like if Adley had been struggling at C in the minors, how bad would it have to get before he is converted to 1B? We also know Elias is very methodical and doesn't deviate from his plan when he has one. 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You are comparing a 1/1 to 1/30 and later players. They don't have nearly the pedigree of Holliday. I agree with you overall but the comparison is not apples to apples. It would be more like if Adley had been struggling at C in the minors, how bad would it have to get before he is converted to 1B? We also know Elias is very methodical and doesn't deviate from his plan when he has one. 

Switching Adley or any catcher to another position is huge.   Again it’s apples vs oranges compared to switching a SS to 2B.   It would also be different if you’re switching Adley to 1B not because he’s not good defensively but because you have Johnny Bench or Pudge Rodriguez to be your catcher.

I’m not sure what Elias plan was or is but I doubt very much if it was etched in stone on 2022 draft day.   The Orioles have promoted Henderson aggressively, and continued to give him plenty of time, currently the majority of time at SS, and he’s looked great and the metrics back that up.   I am quite skeptical that Holliday is capable of becoming as good as Henderson is right now but more power to him if he can.