Thoughts on deep playoff run?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Huh?  Are you saying they have made extra cash flow because they signed them to extensions?

Yes.

[Moose Milligan]

13 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

WOW! By that logic Tom Brady and Michael Jordan are some of the "luckiest" sons of a gun that this planet has ever known. I guess Jeter and the Yanks from 96- 00 were very "lucky" too?

Well if that is the case, where can I get some of that "luck" from? The Powerball is up to what 800+ million...lol

 

Pretty sure Charles Woodson feels unlucky.  

[clapdiddy]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s because of how good they are…not because they signed players to extensions who were already going to be on their team for several years anyway.

I think having those players around for many years will keep them very good for quite a while.   Heck, they were still drawing over 2M from 2014-2017 when they weren't very good. 

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Your ability to read and comprehend it is astoundingly awful.

Have I ever insulted you before? If not, then maybe that was a little uncalled for?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Pretty sure Charles Woodson feels unlucky.  

Hey. I'm certainly no fan of Tom Brady. But that's one Super Bowl. What about the other 6? Any thoughts on MJ's 6? Kobe's 5? Jeter's 5?

I'm not saying that they didn't find luck/good fortune along the way. But there has to be other controllable factors beyond luck when you are dealing with multiple time champions. The greatest factor can be repeated luck.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yes.

OK SG, since this is apparently a difficult topic for you I'll try and explain it so you can understand it.

Fans are happy when teams sign good young players to long term deals.

Happy fans are more likely to buy season tickets and buy merch.

 TV ratings are higher when fans are happy.

Sponsors and advertisers are willing to pay more money when a team is popular.

 

I absolutely think that the team's revenue stream is higher today than it would be if they hadn't extended those players.

You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.  The only question is, how much more revenue will be generated.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Hey. I'm certainly no fan of Tom Brady. But that's one Super Bowl. What about the other 6? Any thoughts on MJ's 6? Kobe's 5? Jeter's 5?

I'm not saying that they didn't find luck/good fortune along the way. But there has to be other controllable factors beyond luck when you are dealing with multiple time champions. The greatest factor can be repeated luck.

Didn't the Patriots get caught cheating on more than one occasion during the Brady years?

Some sort of thing with the balls and guys watching practices?

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Have I ever insulted you before? If not, then maybe that was a little uncalled for?

Well, then don’t completely misrepresent what I said. Your interpretation of what I said showed awful reading comprehension. Sorry you don’t like the truth but it is what it is.

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

OK SG, since this is apparently a difficult topic for you I'll try and explain it so you can understand it.

Fans are happy when teams sign good young players to long term deals.

Happy fans are more likely to buy season tickets and buy merch.

 TV ratings are higher when fans are happy.

Sponsors and advertisers are willing to pay more money when a team is popular.

 

I absolutely think that the team's revenue stream is higher today than it would be if they hadn't extended those players.

You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.  The only question is, how much more revenue will be generated.

This is stupid.

I don’t think anyone is buying season tickets because they have these guys signed, especially  when most of them were extended very early into their Ml service time.

Basically you are saying people are going to games now because players are signed in 2029.  That’s dumb.

 

[btdart20]

Offensively and defensively, we're as competitive as any team IMO.  And hopefully we're only getting better with Westburg and Cowser coming in limiting PAs for Mateo and Frazier.  Maybe we could use a proven MOO, but it's fairly low on my list of priorities.  I don't think we pay the freight and go with a full roster attack.

And our pitching is good enough to make us contenders.  But I'm sympathetic to the thoughts that playoff teams are better than the average MLB team and that TOR SPs have a more of an impact on a short series.

That said, I less interested in trading the top prospects (Holliday, Grayson, Mayo, Cowser, Kjerstad, Basallo, and to a lesser degree Povich and McDermott) for SPs I've seen tossed about.  I'm not convinced there's a TOR SP who would really move the needle as much as we need for 2023 and beyond.  Hopefully Elias can get creative here though.

Which means the bullpen is the path to increasing our competitiveness for 2023 and beyond.  Two plus arms would go a long way.  We've got Bautista and Cano.  

Do I feel confident we'll have a deep playoff run?  As confident as I can be with a solid but not great rotation.  A lot depends on the growth and impact of our young bats being ready.

Is that relying on luck?  Or building a perennial contender instead of a limiting window?  IMO, trading any of those guys above would negatively impact deep playoff runs in 2024-2030.  

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't the Patriots get caught cheating on more than one occasion during the Brady years?

Some sort of thing with the balls and guys watching practices?

Definitely! I believe that cheating was integral to the strategy that Bill Belichick used. But he also had Tom Brady. who went on to leave the system with the cheating advantage and win another championship after the age of 40.

Also, I know that basketball is subject to influence/interference by referees but Jordan's 6 championships and Kobe's 5 couldn't have just all been lucky. Could they?

Was the "luck" and/or cheating the dominant for Jeter's 5 rings? Yes they had help cheating us in '96, but they won a whole heck of a lot of postseason series after that.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, then don’t completely misrepresent what I said. Your interpretation of what I said showed awful reading comprehension. Sorry you don’t like the truth but it is what it is.

 

Wow! That's really mature of you.

You do you my guy!

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Hey. I'm certainly no fan of Tom Brady. But that's one Super Bowl. What about the other 6? Any thoughts on MJ's 6? Kobe's 5? Jeter's 5?

I'm not saying that they didn't find luck/good fortune along the way. But there has to be other controllable factors beyond luck when you are dealing with multiple time champions. The greatest factor can be repeated luck.

Has ANYONE said there aren’t other factors other than luck? Has ANyONE even said that luck is the BIGGeST factor?

I don’t get why people think luck is such a dirty word. You 100% have to have it to win. Luck comes in different forms. Could be an unusual play (see Lenny Webster 1997 playoffs), injuries (see early 2000s As), a call missed by an official(or one called that usually isn’t, see this past SB). It’s all luck and you need it.

It’s not THE reason you win but it’s 100% a component in winning.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Hey. I'm certainly no fan of Tom Brady. But that's one Super Bowl. What about the other 6? Any thoughts on MJ's 6? Kobe's 5? Jeter's 5?

I'm not saying that they didn't find luck/good fortune along the way. But there has to be other controllable factors beyond luck when you are dealing with multiple time champions. The greatest factor can be repeated luck.

That wasn't a Super Bowl.  That was an AFC Divisional Playoff Game.

Do I have thoughts on MJ's 6?  Kobe's 5?  Jeter's 5?  I think you're hoisting those up as evidence that, as you said, repeated luck is some evidence that they were able to be better than lucky or something.

What you're not talking about is all the times they didn't win a title.  Where the ball didn't bounce their way, where they ran into a hotter opponent.  There certainly are controllable factors, especially a little bit more in basketball where an MJ or a Kobe is 20% of your team on the floor and they can be fed the ball to score.  

 

[btdart20]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't the Patriots get caught cheating on more than one occasion during the Brady years?

Some sort of thing with the balls and guys watching practices?

There was a substitution rule change the season after they did a quick change in the last seconds against the Ravens where they scored.  Not technically cheating, but definitely not playing with integrity either.