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If Elias does very little at the deadline...

Greg Pappas

By Greg Pappas
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Billy F-Face3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Billy F-Face3

Posted
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1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Why was Keuchel mad?  Did he lose his rotation spot?

No he was mad because the Astros did absolutely nothing to improve their roster that year, and he wanted to win more. He didn't just want to win, he wanted to win assuredly. 

 

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vab
vab

From 110 losses to the best record in the AL in two years? Elias gets the benefit of all doubts from me. 

Aristotelian
Aristotelian

I try not to get upset about things I cannot control. I would also try to understand the logic of moves or non-moves before assuming they are wrong. One factor would be what we would have to give up t

interloper
interloper

The "solid reliever" I wouldn't be mad at. It doesn't have to be a Hader or a Bednar, but it has to be much, much more reliable than a Fujinami.  The lack of SP I think you would absolutely have

e16bball Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

e16bball

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

No he was mad because the Astros did absolutely nothing to improve their roster that year, and he wanted to win more. He didn't just want to win, he wanted to win assuredly. 

 

Yeah, but then they won the World Series that year — and went to 3 more, with another championship, over the next 5 seasons. 

So maybe there’s a reason why the FO doesn’t ask the players what they think…?

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OriolesMagic83 Hangout Grand Counsel

OriolesMagic83

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8 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

I mean Lynn would have been fine a month ago where we have time to evaluate and fix him. I just don't think fixer uppers are a good idea for the playoff and world series push.

You mean like the O's fixed Hall and GrayRod and Voth.  Gee, let's just get other team's failed prospects and underperforming pitchers and work our magic.  It'll be like the O's 60's/70's pitching but better.

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Billy F-Face3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Billy F-Face3

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16 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, but then they won the World Series that year — and went to 3 more, with another championship, over the next 5 seasons. 

So maybe there’s a reason why the FO doesn’t ask the players what they think…?

As of August 1 2017, there was never a guarantee of that happening. Can you blame a team member for wanting to stack the odds in their favor? I mean, they were even trying to stack the odds in their favor by doing the stolen signals, trash can banging, buzzer scandal.

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e16bball Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

e16bball

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19 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

As of August 1 2017, there was never a guarantee of that happening. Can you blame a team member for wanting to stack the odds in their favor? I mean, they were even trying to stack the odds in their favor by doing the stolen signals, trash can banging, buzzer scandal.

I don’t “blame” him. I’m just saying his disappointment was misplaced — the FO’s course proved to be a very successful one. They did already have enough to win that season, and they kept their talent stockpile intact to continue winning for years to come.

As players (and coaches/managers) often are, he was more invested in trying to win right now than in the team’s future. Which is natural. But it appears that their FO struck a pretty ideal balance between “win now” and “keep winning later,” so does anyone really care that Dallas Keuchel was disappointed on August 1, 2017? I’m assuming he was singing a very different tune on November 1, 2017. 

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Orioles0615 Hangout Grand Counsel

Orioles0615

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5 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

You mean like the O's fixed Hall and GrayRod and Voth.  Gee, let's just get other team's failed prospects and underperforming pitchers and work our magic.  It'll be like the O's 60's/70's pitching but better.

wait Im confused Is this sarcasm? The O's haven't fixed any of them 

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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Keuchel's action may or may not have become another data element to enter into the SigBot after August 1, 2017, and then  there was a different scientifically arrived at decision than what happened before.

Keuchel's embarrassment was for the No Verlander August 1 roster.

I doubt the Astros get that title without him - 37 strong October innings, and ALCS MVP that at the August 1 deadline the organization did not vigorously pursue.

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ScGO's All-Star

ScGO's

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I can understand if Elias stands pat or swings smaller moves for our #20-40 Prospects in order to protect our elite prospect talent. It might be this offseason that he's really eyeing up for making moves because the timing is just better.  We are out of the rebuild, but there is definitely still evaluation going on at the MLB and high milb levels.

2023 is the early budding of a potential dynasty, and I don't think it would be wise to do what the Padres did a few years ago when they had the top minor league system in baseball; they started buying expensive FAs and selling the Farm for other veterans. I don't think its wise to send of 3 or 4 of our top 10 guys when 1) all of those prospects will still have good if not better value this Offseason and 2) a lot of guys in that top group are AAA/AA guys and could be game changers as soon as next year.

I think the O's need this offseason to explore trading players like Santander, Hays, and Mullins as they are close to their peak values, getting more expensive, and have high ceiling prospects coming up behind them. I'm also open to a Mullins extension if they think they can get him for a fair price. I think they need to look into a trade for a controllable pitcher and should also look to sign 1 FA pitcher that is the next progressive jump in the Lyles/Gibson/? pattern.  I think Adley and Gunnar need to be extended as well.

Elias may be telling our guys if you want to win the World Series, it needs to be with this group. He might see next years team as a 110 Win club sure fire WS contender if he can be patient for just a little longer

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btdart20 Hangout Veteran Council

btdart20

Posted
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10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s funny..Rosenthal listed Elias as one of his execs under a lot of pressure this deadline.

Im not seeing that at all. I think you would be hard pressed to find a GM with less pressure on him than Elias.

Agreed.  Rosenthal is creating the news instead of reporting it.  

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btdart20 Hangout Veteran Council

btdart20

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13 hours ago, Malike said:

I'll probably be in the minority here (what else is new), but I absolutely don't believe that Elias is a slave to whatever Sig wants. John Angelos? Sure, I'll buy that. If they don't make any trades at the deadline and the team has a nice run to finish off the season and makes the playoffs a year earlier than everyone thought they would, I'd expect Elias to do some things in the off-season to augment what we have on the field already.

Elias is the OCD Alpha who surrounds himself with tools to be an organized decision maker.  Sig skillset is one of those tools.  Elias knows Sig's strengths and weaknesses.  I do think Elias highly values Sig's input, but Elias makes the final decisions.

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Orioles0615 Hangout Grand Counsel

Orioles0615

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9 hours ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, but then they won the World Series that year — and went to 3 more, with another championship, over the next 5 seasons. 

So maybe there’s a reason why the FO doesn’t ask the players what they think…?

This was also when you could make Waiver trades, and Justin Verlander was traded to them a month later

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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12 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s funny..Rosenthal listed Elias as one of his execs under a lot of pressure this deadline.

Im not seeing that at all. I think you would be hard pressed to find a GM with less pressure on him than Elias.

Yeah, the weight of the world is on the team with one of the best records in baseball, and nobody, including themselves, saw it coming this fast.

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LA2 Hangout Grand Counsel

LA2

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Keuchel's action may or may not have become another data element to enter into the SigBot after August 1, 2017, and then  there was a different scientifically arrived at decision than what happened before.

Keuchel's embarrassment was for the No Verlander August 1 roster.

I doubt the Astros get that title without him - 37 strong October innings, and ALCS MVP that at the August 1 deadline the organization did not vigorously pursue.

Keuchel redeemed

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