Why isn't Ortiz in Baltimore instead of Mateo?

[Winter]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:14 PM, G54377 said:

After this year Frazier will be gone. So perhaps Ortiz opens up 2024 getting essentially the at bats Frazier is getting this year. Gunnar at SS, and Urias/Westburg/Ortiz rotating around 2B/3B as needed. Elias may just want Ortiz to continue to get at bats, because unless there's an injury it's still going to be difficult for the remainder of 2023 on the Orioles. 

Ortiz makes Urias, Mateo both easy to trade in the offseason...Urias can probably score a good bullpen arm or depth starter and Ortiz makes losing Urias defense not a big loss. Unless traded Norby will be in line for Fraziers spot but is right handed like Ortiz so i think he gets traded. BUT all of discussion for next year is all pointless imo because we dont know how Elias and company want to handle Holliday, the infield of next year could all revolve around if hes on the team or not, or when/if. 

[Sports Guy]

10 hours ago, baltfan said:

Mateo is the only guy on this team that would have been safe at home today.  That’s why he is on the team. You need someone like that in the playoffs. 

You never NEED something to win. There are many different ways to win.

That said, it is exactly why he is here. Maybe he distracts a pitcher. Maybe he scores on a play no one else does, etc…

I agree with CoC that you are hoping a situation arises to justifies this because there is no guarantee that it does.

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

No you don't.

Who did last year's Astros team have like that?

It is a great weapon to have in a very specific situation that doesn't come up all that often.

Well, that’s the interesting question.  How often does it happen that a critical run in a series is scored by a pinch runner whose speed made the difference between being safe and being out?   And how often is enough, when you consider the other uses for that roster spot?  I wish I had a clear answer, but I don’t.  

[sportsfan8703]

Great base running my Mateo. He was in the pitcher’s head so much at 2nd base. Mateo has a role. He made a great jump throw too this series. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 hours ago, LA2 said:

Actually, their Mateo was pretty much like ours: Alcides Escobar, the starting SS--

662 PAs, 3 HR, 17 SB; 67 OPS+ / 1.7 dWAR

Our Mateo is currently:

289 PAs, ６HR, 25 SB; 65 OPS+ / 0.8 dWAR

Good grab.

That being said, lots of playoff teams don't have a guy like that.

[sportsfan8703]

10 hours ago, LA2 said:

Actually, their Mateo was pretty much like ours: Alcides Escobar, the starting SS--

662 PAs, 3 HR, 17 SB; 67 OPS+ / 1.7 dWAR

Our Mateo is currently:

289 PAs, ６HR, 25 SB; 65 OPS+ / 0.8 dWAR

Nice. Not every team has a loaded lineup like the Braves. Houston’s 5-9 is terrible. The Dodgers have been having SS Rosario batting cleanup. The Jays and Mariners have similar shaky 5-9s. The Rays fell off after that incredible start. 

[btdart20]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, that’s the interesting question.  How often does it happen that a critical run in a series is scored by a pinch runner whose speed made the difference between being safe and being out?   And how often is enough, when you consider the other uses for that roster spot?  I wish I had a clear answer, but I don’t.  

That is the key question.  I have to think the value of speed is higher now (and especially this year) than it's been in the past considering the ghost runner in extra innings, pitch clock, pick-off limits, and bigger bases.

For a team that has laughed in the face of Pythag, they have to get more questions/projections right than wrong.

[Matt Bennett]

30 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Nice. Not every team has a loaded lineup like the Braves. Houston’s 5-9 is terrible. The Dodgers have been having SS Rosario batting cleanup. The Jays and Mariners have similar shaky 5-9s. The Rays fell off after that incredible start. 

While I agree with your general sentiment that the O's can beat any team, I think you've been exaggerating with the "Houston's 5-9 is terrible". Chas McCormick has had a solid career and an impressive season slashing .280/.368/.517. He slots in at Houston's 5th spot in the lineup. Their 24 year old catcher Y. Diaz is slugging .514 and slots in 6th. Not to mention that Altuve, Tucker, and Yordan Alvarez are doing things/have done things no one on the Orioles has come close to. The whole world has seen "it" from Alex Bregman and Jeremy Pena and they are certainly capable of more. 

[Sports Guy]

https://x.com/barrytrotsky/status/1691052474277195776?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA

[LA2]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Good grab.

That being said, lots of playoff teams don't have a guy like that.

Enough do, though, to make it a matter of serious consideration and choice. The team the Royals faced in the World Series, the Mets, had a starting SS in the same ilk, Rúben Tejada (better OPS+ but not a base stealer and no power) until Chase Utley cut him down at the shin.

[sportsfan8703]

Mateo not only just doesn’t produce at the plate, but he’s such a non threat offensively that it allows the SP to essentially to get a live ABs practice batter to get the feel of whatever pitch their struggling with before they face the top of our lineup. It’s a mental and physical break for the SP. Even more so than facing a pitcher because they don’t have the pressure of having giving up a hit to the pitcher. 
 

In summary, Mateo is such a non threat that it lets pitchers get into a groove before they face our top of the lineup. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by sportsfan8703

[Aristotelian]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:54 AM, Frobby said:

Well, that’s the interesting question.  How often does it happen that a critical run in a series is scored by a pinch runner whose speed made the difference between being safe and being out?   And how often is enough, when you consider the other uses for that roster spot?  I wish I had a clear answer, but I don’t.  

That is the other question. How are we using that last spot and what is their role? If it is Ortiz, who is he better than in what situation? Is he replacing Urias? Starting for Gunnar vs LHP? If Mateo's replacement doesn't really have a role, then Mateo's running ability becomes an asset. 

[clapdiddy]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

That is the other question. How are we using that last spot and what is their role? If it is Ortiz, who is he better than in what situation? Is he replacing Urias? Starting for Gunnar vs LHP? If Mateo's replacement doesn't really have a role, then Mateo's running ability becomes an asset. 

I would say they should play Gunnar (3B), Ortiz (SS), Westburg (2B) every day with Urias/Frazier giving them the occasional day off.

[Aristotelian]

16 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I would say they should play Gunnar (3B), Ortiz (SS), Westburg (2B) every day with Urias/Frazier giving them the occasional day off.

I would not start Ortiz over Urias. If Elias and Hyde were going to do that, they would have made that move a long time ago.