TT: Major league ready minor leaguers

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, now said:

True, and I'm fine with that. I confess I hate to lose any of those prospects. My pecking order to keep would be: Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Ortiz, Norby, Westburg. That could include utility and outfield spots as well as IB, DH, and platoon... but if any have to leave the ship, go in reverse order in the above list.

So leave a bunch at Norfolk until they run out of options?

How is that fair to the players?

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, now said:

True, and I'm fine with that. I confess I hate to lose any of those prospects. My pecking order to keep would be: Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Ortiz, Norby, Westburg. That could include utility and outfield spots as well as IB, DH, and platoon... but if any have to leave the ship, go in reverse order in the above list.

Norby over Westburg?  Interesting.  I think you’re in the minority on that one.

[now]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So leave a bunch at Norfolk until they run out of options?

How is that fair to the players?

I agree. I want them on the major league roster, over the likes of Urias, Mateo, Hays, Frazier, even Mountcastle.

[now]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Norby over Westburg?  Interesting.  I think you’re in the minority on that one.

No doubt, but that's fine. Just my intuition. We'll see how they compare five years from now. 

[NCRaven]

56 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So leave a bunch at Norfolk until they run out of options?

How is that fair to the players?

Rant time only because you raise this issue often.  Free agency and guaranteed multi-year contracts give players an advantage.  The six years of team control and ability to keep players off the 40 man roster for a period of time give management an advantage.  Both use those advantages to their own benefit and harm.  Peter Angelos freely entered into a crazy contract with Chris Davis.  Joe Ortiz freely entered into a career in baseball with its rules and CBA.  Is it fair that Arnold Schwarzeneger was paid $20-$40 million per movie and that autoworkers make $35-$60 thousand per year?  Everyone works in the system that they've chosen (if you accept that people have some level of free choice in our cultural and economic system).  When Brooks Robinson was making $110,000 under the reserve clause and the very early days of free agency, my truck driving father was making $10,000.  One entertained you and one put heating oil in your tank to keep you warm in the winter.  What does fairness have to do with it?

Note:  Few people could play baseball like Brooks and many can drive a truck.  I understand scarcity and supply vs. demand.  But neither of those has anything to do with fairness.  God, or the fates, if you prefer, choses to give some incredible talent which combined with hard work can result in incredible incomes.  I got to be born in America and others in Haiti.  As Tina Turner might have said - what's fairness got to do with it.  Hmmm... why have former English colonies seemed to prosper much more than former Spanish and French colonies?  Wait, what were we talking about, anyway?

Edited November 8, 2023 by NCRaven

[Can_of_corn]

I didn't say it wasn't allowable.

I asked how it was fair.

It's perfectly allowable.

I will say that those players we are talking about had no say in the agreement they are bound by.

[RZNJ]

59 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So leave a bunch at Norfolk until they run out of options?

How is that fair to the players?

Is anyone any good close to running out of options.  Most have 2 or 3 left.  

[NCRaven]

I don't really disagree.  But, they could always choose another career if they are terribly troubled by the unfairness inherent in the CBA.  Or, once they're members of the MLBPA, they could actually show some cajones and stand up for they guys coming up behind them.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So leave a bunch at Norfolk until they run out of options?

How is that fair to the players?

I don’t think “fair to the players” enters Elias’ decision making much.  He’ll do what’s best for the organization, not what’s fair to the players.  However, often those things coincide, especially since organizational morale is important.  

[PaOsFan]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:32 PM, Tony-OH said:

As we get started into our offseason chatter, it's time to take a look at the deep depth that the Orioles have in the infield and outfield when it comes to minor leaguers who are ready for major league jobs. 

These are the major league ready guys coming into spring training:

Heston Kjerstad: (RF/1B/DH): It's all about the stick with him. Could be Santander's replacement if he's moved.
Colton Cowser: (CF/LF/RF): Bombed in his debut and questions about him hitting good velocity have now become an issue, but he's probably ready.
Joey Ortiz: (SS/2B/3B): Absolutely nothing left to prove in AAA. Can play every infield position well and should hit enough if given regular PAs.
Kyle Stowers: (RF/DH/): Easy to forget about him but despite his ML struggles and injuries, he put up a .875 OPS in AAA and will play at 26 y/o next year
Terrin Vavra: (2B/LF): Pretty much a lost year with injuries once again and probably will get traded or DFa'd this offseason
Connor Norby: (2B/LF): Nothing more to prove in AAA with the bat and now just needs a shot
Coby Mayo: (3B/1B): One of the Orioles top prospects, he only has 267 PAs in AAA, but once he made the adjustments he looked too good for AAA.

Maybe Ready:
Jackson Holliday: (SS/2B): I'm only putting him here because Elias said he has a chance to win a job in spring training, but with only 91 AAA and some defensive development that needs to happen, he may be ticketed back to AAA. 

Everyone of these guys, but Vavra, has the ability to be an everyday player and even Vavra might be able to hold an everyday 2B job in a second division team.

When add that to guys like:
Gunnar Henderson: (SS/3B)
Jordan Westburg: (2B/3B)

That's a lot of 2nd year players or rookies that are ready for major league action. Elias has quite the job ahead of him deciding who gets traded for pitching help or even packaged together for a legitimate MOO bat.

Oh, and Beavers and Basallo could be knocking on the door late in the year.

Guess it's a good problem to have.

So where do you make playing time for some of these?

Catcher - we're set with Basallo as possible replacement if McCann leaves in 25

IB set with Mayo as injury backup if Urias traded

2b - Westburg (R) and Vavra (L) to start with Oritz as backup or utility and Holiday as long term replacement when Henderson playing SS.  Norby perhaps if a good spring pushing Westburg to 3rd

SS - Henderson with Oritz as backup/utillity with Holiday as co owning in future with Henderson.  I see Mato being cut or traded for a AAA rp.

3B - Urias (if kept) , Westburg/Henderson if not

LF Hays - you need a CF here so it's Hays or Cowser or Mckenna

CF all Mullins with Mckenna backup

RF - unless something wrong with Kjerstad's defense, i'd think he slots here with stowers another year at AAA to rebuild value and cut strikeouts. 

so i see Vavra replacing Frazier

Cowser or Mckenna replacing Hicks.  more likely mckenna as R and out of options

Means replacing Gibson

Santander + prospect moved for SP pitching or alone for a closer

Kjerstad replacing Santander

Ortiz replacing Matos

Wells as 5th starter and Hall as closer or swapped pending who is picked up from trade

 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, PaOsFan said:

So where do you make playing time for some of these?

Catcher - we're set with Basallo as possible replacement if McCann leaves in 25

IB set with Mayo as injury backup if Urias traded

2b - Westburg (R) and Vavra (L) to start with Oritz as backup or utility and Holiday as long term replacement when Henderson playing SS.  Norby perhaps if a good spring pushing Westburg to 3rd

SS - Henderson with Oritz as backup/utillity with Holiday as co owning in future with Henderson.  I see Mato being cut or traded for a AAA rp.

3B - Urias (if kept) , Westburg/Henderson if not

LF Hays - you need a CF here so it's Hays or Cowser or Mckenna

CF all Mullins with Mckenna backup

RF - unless something wrong with Kjerstad's defense, i'd think he slots here with stowers another year at AAA to rebuild value and cut strikeouts. 

so i see Vavra replacing Frazier

Cowser or Mckenna replacing Hicks.  more likely mckenna as R and out of options

Means replacing Gibson

Santander + prospect moved for SP pitching or alone for a closer

Kjerstad replacing Santander

Ortiz replacing Matos

Wells as 5th starter and Hall as closer or swapped pending who is picked up from trade

 

Lots of ways that Elias can go, but the key is for some of these guys to develop into impact guys or be packaged for impact players.