Cease vs everyone else

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Well, I told you that he’s entering his age 26 season. You seem to have not known that but alright, math is hard for you and  seems to be a sensitive subject. I’ll include pictures of my fingers and toes when counting above 20 so that you can follow along. 

Can we please not start with feet pics?

I've seen boards go down over them before.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Malike said:

That's not an indictment of the team, Florida is a horrible baseball state. Too many transplants and the stadium is awful and really annoying to get to.

There hasn’t been a team in Florida that’s tried competing without trading superstars to reload soon after they get good

[wildbillhiccup]

28 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

But Michael Busch wasn’t as attractive last year.  As a 24 yo he only had an 800 OPS in the PCL.  As a 25 yo it was over 1.000 and his value AND ranking went HIGHER!

I mean it went up slightly, but I'm sure his added age negated any gain in actual trade value. 

[deward]

4 hours ago, owknows said:

I wouldn't disagree that it would be tough to expect the draft good fortune of Adley, Gunnar and Holliday year are year.

But a couple things...

Gunnar Henderson was taken in the 2nd round with the 42nd overall pick.

Additionally if this strategy plays out as I expect it to, few if any of these players will be kept through their arb years. So we will be trading in peak year Adley, Gunnar, and Holliday type players for their equivalent talent mass in the mid to high majors.

I think that is a sustainable process.

And I think in fact that it is the only sustainable process for small or mid market team to be a perpetual contender. I suspect it is the path that the Orioles will follow. And its success is completely contingent on having a front office that is better than average at identifying talent.

 

A process designed around finding Gunnar Hendersons in the 2nd round with any degree of regularity is a process doomed to failure. Good fortune has had a part to play here. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, deward said:

A process designed around finding Gunnar Hendersons in the 2nd round with any degree of regularity is a process doomed to failure. Good fortune has had a part to play here. 

It would have been harder to find the money to pay Henderson if you didn't have the 1-1 pool money. (he was over 528K overslot)

 

Edited January 13 by Can_of_corn

[deward]

4 hours ago, owknows said:

I wouldn't disagree that it would be tough to expect the draft good fortune of Adley, Gunnar and Holliday year are year.

But a couple things...

Gunnar Henderson was taken in the 2nd round with the 42nd overall pick.

Additionally if this strategy plays out as I expect it to, few if any of these players will be kept through their arb years. So we will be trading in peak year Adley, Gunnar, and Holliday type players for their equivalent talent mass in the mid to high majors.

I think that is a sustainable process.

And I think in fact that it is the only sustainable process for small or mid market team to be a perpetual contender. I suspect it is the path that the Orioles will follow. And its success is completely contingent on having a front office that is better than average at identifying talent.

 

I'd also point out that there has yet to be a franchise acting as a feeder team for the rest of the league that has been able to win a championship with that approach. It's inherently limiting. Also, even Tampa occasionally spends money to keep or acquire key guys. Never, ever spending and relying entirely on just being better than everyone else at prospect evaluation is foolishness. 

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

LOL sure, pal. 
 

You can circle around whatever wagons you want until you land on something that you (think) supports your position but you’re still incorrect. Die on this hill though. That’s your journey. 
 

And btw Joey is entering his age 26 season. So, yeah. 

Ortiz did well in AAA, if he can match that in the bigs he’s super valuable. They might as well not even called him up. He what? 1 start a week over a month. You can’t hold that against him!

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Perhaps you should spend less time trying to stir the spot and more time trying to make a compelling argument for why we should use an antiquated team stat like wins to evaluate a pitcher's worth. 

No ..m not stirring the “spot”. You said Wins were a completely worthless stat. @Tony-OH made some statements about Gibson’s value based on Wins. You obviously didn’t troll the big guy. You are so convinced it’s worthless but don’t have the cahoonies to engage. Brilliant 

And I’m not trolling! I’m calling you out ….just like you used my number of post as a reason why I should know wins are meaningless.

Edited January 13 by Roll Tide

[owknows]

36 minutes ago, deward said:

I'd also point out that there has yet to be a franchise acting as a feeder team for the rest of the league that has been able to win a championship with that approach. It's inherently limiting. Also, even Tampa occasionally spends money to keep or acquire key guys. Never, ever spending and relying entirely on just being better than everyone else at prospect evaluation is foolishness. 

This could have been the text from the scouting room scene in Moneyball.

[owknows]

1 hour ago, brooooksy said:

You’re not making any sense

The point was that any new strategy has by definition, never been tried before.

[deward]

19 minutes ago, owknows said:

This could have been the text from the scouting room scene in Moneyball.

Billy Beane's trophy shelf looks pretty empty.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, owknows said:

This could have been the text from the scouting room scene in Moneyball.

It’s not a new strategy. The orioles didn’t invent tanking or trying to reload by trading expensive arb eligible players

[owknows]

Just now, deward said:

Billy Beane's trophy shelf looks pretty empty.

So is it your contention that this nullifies the value of the strategies he was attempting to advance?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, brooooksy said:

It’s not a new strategy. The orioles didn’t invent tanking or trying to reload by trading expensive arb eligible players

The idea of trying to contend perpetually by not signing expensive free agents, and defacto trading away your arb year talent to reload WITHOUT tanking is a new strategy. Or so I am told by the other antagonist currently engaging me in the thread.

[wildbillhiccup]

13 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No ..m not stirring the “spot”. You said Wins were a completely worthless stat. @Tony-OH made some statements about Gibson’s value based on Wins. You obviously didn’t troll the big guy. You are so convinced it’s worthless but don’t have the cahoonies to engage. Brilliant 

And I’m not trolling! I’m calling you out ….just like you used my number of post as a reason why I should know wins are meaningless.

Did you miss the part where @Tony-OH specifically said -  "I'm not saying it's (wins) a useful stats by itself and should be used to evaluate pitchers" - which is exactly what you were trying to do the other day to try and argue that Cease wasn't a better pitcher than Gibson. The difference between you calling me out and me calling you out is that I made an actual argument for why wins isn't a useful stat when evaluating a pitcher's ability whereas you just snitch tagged someone else in the hopes that they would fight your battle for you. Making outlandish comments with little or no data to back it up might fly when you use your alter ego on the White Sox message board, but the OH is the big leagues and the more outlandish your statement, the more you should expect to be called out.