Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

Because the discussion related to who the best, most major league ready, players are right now. Not who is the best long term prospect is.

Holliday is a plus defender at a premium position.  Mayo is not.  

[DirtyBird]

33 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Holliday is a plus defender at a premium position.  Mayo is not.  

2B is a premium position?

And how much better than Westburg is he there?

[emmett16]

21 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

2B is a premium position?

And how much better than Westburg is he there?

Or course it is.  They get the most chances per year and are +3 runs in WAR calcs.  (more than CF & 3B).  Jackson can also play SS...

Westburg is a 40/40 (future) and is seen as being able to play SS in a pinch.

Holiday is a 40/50 defender and is see as a potential plus SS.  

Edited March 17 by emmett16

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

If it was merely PR speak, couldn’t Elias have chosen to make the same comments about Mayo that he did about Holliday?

You don’t think there was a reason behind that? Or a reason that they promoted Holliday so aggressively and are switching his position?

Holliday is the #1 prospect in mlb and everyone is following his progress.  I'd guess that Elias is asked a dozen questions about Holliday for every one question asked about Mayo.  That's not a knock on Mayo,  but rather just how hyped Holliday is,  rightfully so. Again,  the PR and expectations are vastly different nationally,  and this the differences in answers.   Again,  maybe Elias is being completely honest, and Holliday legitimately can win an OD spot.  But I'll believe it when it actually happens, his rosey comments notwithstanding. 

Yes,  there is a reason Holliday was promoted that quickly.   He's that good.   And yes,  there is a reason they are looking to change his position, he's sorta blocked by Henderson, be it this year OR next year.   

[btdart20]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

As I asked a few weeks ago, why does Holliday deserve to be one here over Mayo? 

I hinted at that path a few months ago and got the confused emoji.

Both are ready.  Both would upgrade the top 26.  Both could start 75+% of the time.  Neither would disrupt the R/L balance.  Both are legit ROY candidates.  Holliday in an all-around way, Mayo with the stats "chicks dig".

Mayo has a more ready MiLB resume.  Holliday has as high a floor as anyone to project from at his age.  So, for me, the 2024 talent is a bit of a wash.

A few reasons for Holliday before Mayo are:

1. roster construction as Holliday is a natural backfill of LHH Frazier.  Lineup management style wouldn't have to change much to start the season.

2.  Westburg/Urias mostly at 3B and vs LHP at 2B. The defensive floor around the IF is more stable with Holliday over Mayo.  Especially if you're moving Mayo to a new position (and even at 3B).

3. Following Elias' draft capital.  Or more broadly, the PR of Holliday is greater than Mayo.

 

The big reason for Mayo over Holliday is that I think Mayo would be more likely to sign an extension. Both could, but more likely...

All of that said, the multiverse of trades looms large.

[sevastras]

3 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

We have an embarrassment of riches, really.

What kind of world do we live in that it is entirely possible that the orioles could have the top two ROY candidates?  I still affirm that Holliday will be on the opening day roster. Barring injury, there is negative zero chance he is rookie eligible next year. 
Todays lineup should give everyone a clear picture of who won’t be on the opening day roster. 

[DirtyBird]

42 minutes ago, sevastras said:

Todays lineup should give everyone a clear picture of who won’t be on the opening day roster. 

Explain...

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, sevastras said:

What kind of world do we live in that it is entirely possible that the orioles could have the top two ROY candidates?  I still affirm that Holliday will be on the opening day roster. Barring injury, there is negative zero chance he is rookie eligible next year. 
Todays lineup should give everyone a clear picture of who won’t be on the opening day roster. 

We are paying two games today at the same time.   Not sure we can really get a ton of insight from either lineup really. 

[Frobby]

It is perfectly logical that Mayo is more major league ready as a hitter than Holliday is.  He OPS’d 1.026 in 78 games at Bowie followed by .905 in 62 games at Norfolk, while Holliday OPS’d .928 in 36 games at Bowie and .796 in 18 games at Norfolk.   Mayo played more games at both levels of the minors last year than Holliday, and hit better at both those levels in 2023 than  Holliday.   And, Mayo has outhit Holliday (along with almost everyone else in the Grapefruit League) this spring.   So, if offense was the only consideration, I’d expect Mayo to make the team over Holliday.  

But offense isn’t the only consideration.  
 

[Satyr3206]

I honestly think Mayo is a better hitter. Have no idea how that will play out.

[Bemorewins]

27 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

I honestly think Mayo is a better hitter. Have no idea how that will play out.

I would say Mayo is older and more experienced. But Holliday being just 20 years old is more impressive to me.

When Holliday is 22 (like Mayo is now) I have no doubt that he will be better. Holliday is about 4 months out of his teenage years.

[DirtyBird]

42 minutes ago, Frobby said:

But offense isn’t the only consideration.  

It should be.

[dystopia]

12 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

It should be.

Why?

[DirtyBird]

9 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Why?

Because our offense needs an upgrade at RH middle of the lineup bat who can hit both RH and LH pitching.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Because our offense needs an upgrade at RH middle of the lineup bat who can hit both RH and LH pitching.

Offense is never the only consideration.  The weighting of offense vs. defense may change depending on a team’s other personnel.