Early spring training lineups and what they could suggest

[Tony-OH]

Now before some of you get up and arms and tell me it's still early and guys still have plenty of time to play other positions. I agree with you.

Here are couple of early spring lineups and what they could indicate.

1. The second base job is Holliday's to lose - Not only has he gotten most of the starts there (he's starting at SS today), Westburg has not played 2B at all yet (he's starting at 3B). Westburg has not played 2B the spring, so it seems he just needs to beat out Urias for the every day job.
 
2. The third base job is Westburg's to lose - Besides a start at SS yesterday, he's been playing 3B mostly with Urias starting at 2B and 3B. This does not bode well for Coby Mayo's chances of making the team. Assuming Urias is not traded, he becomes a 3B/2B/DH against LHP sometimes spelling both Holliday and Westburg.

3. Kjerstad, Cowser and Stowers are battling for one spot (maybe)- Both Kjerstad and Stowers are getting looks in left and right field, and Cowser is getting a lot of time in CF but I think they know he can slide over to the others if needed. Cowser is off to the best start offensively, Kjerstad is the guy they probably want to keep, and Stowers is the guy they would have the least issues getting part-time work to. But is there room if O'Hearn is on the roster?

4. McKenna is getting every opportunity to stick as 5th OF - He's getting a ton of time in the outfield and has gone hitless so far. He's a good handcuff for Mullins in CF, but most of us thought Mateo would be in that role this year. Mateo has only played SS and has not logged an inning in the outfield yet. Grant it, Gunnar has been out so Mateo has been needed, but you would figure he would get more looks out there in games if they were really looking at him as a 5th OF too. Daniel Johnson has been playing well and getting a lot of looks, but he bats left-handed and doesn't hit left-handed pitching so would be poor handcuff for Mullins in CF. McKenna is out of options and may not make it through waivers.

5. O'Hearn is getting a lot of 1B time - Surprised we have not seen Santander get some 1B time this spring, so it appears O'Hearn will be neck deep in the 1B/DH rotation which begs the question "Where do Cowser or Kjerstad fit on the roster and where are they going to get their PAs?" It seems like the roster can only fit Kjerstad/Cowser/Stowers or O'Hearn? 

 

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Now before some of you get up and arms and tell me it's still early and guys still have plenty of time to play other positions. I agree with you.

Here are couple of early spring lineups and what they could indicate.

1. The second base job is Holliday's to lose - Not only has he gotten most of the starts there (he's starting at SS today), Westburg has not played 2B at all yet (he's starting at 3B). Westburg has not played 2B the spring, so it seems he just needs to beat out Urias for the every day job.
 
2. The third base job is Westburg's to lose - Besides a start at SS yesterday, he's been playing 3B mostly with Urias starting at 2B and 3B. This does not bode well for Coby Mayo's chances of making the team. Assuming Urias is not traded, he becomes a 3B/2B/DH against LHP sometimes spelling both Holliday and Westburg.

3. Kjerstad, Cowser and Stowers are battling for one spot (maybe)- Both Kjerstad and Stowers are getting looks in left and right field, and Cowser is getting a lot of time in CF but I think they know he can slider over to the others if needed. Cowser is off to the best start offensively, Kjerstad is the guy they probably want to keep, and Stowers is the guy they would have the least issues getting part-time work to. But is there room if O'Hearn is on the roster?

4. McKenna is getting every opportunity to stick as 5th OF - He's getting a ton of time in the outfield and has gone hitless so far. He's a good handcuff for Mullins in CF, but most of us thought Mateo would be in that role this year. Mateo has only played SS and has not logged an inning in the outfield yet. Grant it, Gunnar has been out so Mateo has been needed, but you would figure he would get more looks out there in games if they were really looking at him as a 5th OF too. Daniel Johnson has been playing well and getting a lot of looks, but he bats left-handed and doesn't hit left-handed pitching so would be poor handcuff for Mullins in CF. McKenna is out of options and may not make it through waivers.

5. O'Hearn is getting a lot of 1B time - Surprised we have not seen Santander get some 1B time this spring, so it appears O'Hearn will be neck deep in the 1B/DH rotation which begs the question "Where do Cowser or Kjerstad fit on the roster and where are they going to get their PAs?" It seems like the roster can only fit Kjerstad/Cowser/Stowers or O'Hearn? 

 

Agree on most everything.  I do think we’ll see plenty of Mateo in CF.   That’s the move which allows them to move on from McKenna and fit either Kjerstad or Cowser.   The role?   Getting 1 to 2 starts per week in LF against RHP and maybe picking up 1 per week in RF.   With O’Hearn here, I can’t see a bigger role barring injury.   The Orioles said that Mateo would get outfield reps this spring.  It’s a little odd that it hasn’t happened yet but I think it will.

Edited March 1 by RZNJ

[Since1984]

My instinct the last 6+ months has doubts about Jackson making the opening day roster this season. Yet I keep hearing and reading the opposite. 
 

cannot recall an Orioles team that has ever had this much positional depth. One spot for Norby, Stowers, Kerjstad, Cowser? All ready for MLB chances…This is going to be the most interesting spring training!

[Fiver6565]

I think McKenna is toast one way or another.  They'll try to squeeze him through waivers, and if he passes through, awesome, and if he doesn't, they'll be disappointed but not heartbroken.  There are just too many other, better players than him now.  If one of Cowser/Stowers/Kjerstad replaces him, they will just rotate the OF more than last year, so that the AB's are spread more evenly (IE the backup will get more AB's than McKenna has over the last few years).

I feel like Daniel Johnson could hit a HR in every remaining spring AB and it wouldn't matter.  Just can't imagine a path for him to the OD roster given current camp roster makeup.

[oriolediehard]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Now before some of you get up and arms and tell me it's still early and guys still have plenty of time to play other positions. I agree with you.

Here are couple of early spring lineups and what they could indicate.

1. The second base job is Holliday's to lose - Not only has he gotten most of the starts there (he's starting at SS today), Westburg has not played 2B at all yet (he's starting at 3B). Westburg has not played 2B the spring, so it seems he just needs to beat out Urias for the every day job.
 
2. The third base job is Westburg's to lose - Besides a start at SS yesterday, he's been playing 3B mostly with Urias starting at 2B and 3B. This does not bode well for Coby Mayo's chances of making the team. Assuming Urias is not traded, he becomes a 3B/2B/DH against LHP sometimes spelling both Holliday and Westburg.

3. Kjerstad, Cowser and Stowers are battling for one spot (maybe)- Both Kjerstad and Stowers are getting looks in left and right field, and Cowser is getting a lot of time in CF but I think they know he can slider over to the others if needed. Cowser is off to the best start offensively, Kjerstad is the guy they probably want to keep, and Stowers is the guy they would have the least issues getting part-time work to. But is there room if O'Hearn is on the roster?

4. McKenna is getting every opportunity to stick as 5th OF - He's getting a ton of time in the outfield and has gone hitless so far. He's a good handcuff for Mullins in CF, but most of us thought Mateo would be in that role this year. Mateo has only played SS and has not logged an inning in the outfield yet. Grant it, Gunnar has been out so Mateo has been needed, but you would figure he would get more looks out there in games if they were really looking at him as a 5th OF too. Daniel Johnson has been playing well and getting a lot of looks, but he bats left-handed and doesn't hit left-handed pitching so would be poor handcuff for Mullins in CF. McKenna is out of options and may not make it through waivers.

5. O'Hearn is getting a lot of 1B time - Surprised we have not seen Santander get some 1B time this spring, so it appears O'Hearn will be neck deep in the 1B/DH rotation which begs the question "Where do Cowser or Kjerstad fit on the roster and where are they going to get their PAs?" It seems like the roster can only fit Kjerstad/Cowser/Stowers or O'Hearn? 

 

How about the O's trade McKenna, Stowers, Urias and Mateo for a relief pitcher?  That would clear some roster space without having to try to put some on waivers and lose them for nothing?  

[Frobby]

Good analysis, Tony.  As to the outfield, let’s not forget that (1) McKenna is out of options and will have to be exposed to waivers if he doesn’t make the team, whereas (2) the O’s might gain another year of control over Cowser and/or Kjerstad if they’re in the minors for a month (Kjerstad) ot two (Cowser).  That, plus the desire to have some R/L balance among the bench options, weighs in favor of your conclusions.   

[Tony-OH]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Good analysis, Tony.  As to the outfield, let’s not forget that (1) McKenna is out of options and will have to be exposed to waivers if he doesn’t make the team, whereas (2) the O’s might gain another year of control over Cowser and/or Kjerstad if they’re in the minors for a month (Kjerstad) ot two (Cowser).  That, plus the desire to have some R/L balance among the bench options, weighs in favor of your conclusions.   

Yep, they could certainly play the control game if they wanted to, especially if Stowers hit enough to be a part-time player. McKenna helped himself out last year by hitting lefties a little bit and we know he's a solid defender wherever he plays out there. They certainly are giving McKenna lot so looks out there.

[G54377]

I'd like to keep Urias around if possible because he's perfect for the utility infielder role. We'd be wasting the younger guy's time keeping them on the bench not getting AB's. Ideally Westburg/Gunnar/Holliday all start, with Urias as utility infielder and Mateo as super utility (starting at SS occasionally against LH) and pinch runner. One of O'Hearn/Cowser/Kjerstad will need to go at some point soon. Cowser and Kjerstad would mostly be wasting time in AAA. Unfortunately O'Hearn has little to no trade value, because he'd be the one to part with. 

[wse120372]

40 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yep, they could certainly play the control game if they wanted to, especially if Stowers hit enough to be a part-time player. McKenna helped himself out last year by hitting lefties a little bit and we know he's a solid defender wherever he plays out there. They certainly are giving McKenna lot so looks out there.

Business is still business. Elias is playing a long game. Cowser and Kjerstad could both go to Norfolk so they don't hit FA at the same time as Holliday. 

[interloper]

Yeah that's pretty much how I see it so far. It sure feels like a trade is coming at some point, even if it's a minor deal involving out-of-options guys. 

Mayo needs an injury to make it as of right now - that could change quickly. 

Pitching-wise, I was ready to say Baumann was gonna be flipped at the end of camp, but if reports of him hitting 98 are true, among other tweaks he's made, I think he's closer to a lock. 

[now]

26 minutes ago, G54377 said:

Unfortunately O'Hearn has little to no trade value, because he'd be the one to part with. 

This is hard to fathom (though I'm not disagreeing with the observation). I mean, he certainly has value to this 101-win team as a 1B/DH and middle of the order bat... yet no other team would have a need for him? Certainly seems like equal value would be a solid bullpen arm: but then, I guess even those are a coveted commodity. BTW, same goes for Hays, Urias, Stowers, Norby, Mateo as having tradeable value but untraded. Why? Elias just eking out max evaluation time and accounting for future injuries?

Edited March 1 by now

[sportsfan8703]

Does Holliday make OD, but at the expense of Gunnar on the IL?

It appears that it’s McKenna vs Cowser for the last bench spot. Does losing Hilliard on waivers all but guarantee that McKenna gets the nod early on because we couldn’t sneak Hilliard as depth to AAA?

Now that Irvin, and his no options are in rotation, could we start out with a 5 man bench, since we have more up/down flexibility in the pen?  

[RarityFlaherty]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Now before some of you get up and arms and tell me it's still early and guys still have plenty of time to play other positions. I agree with you.

Here are couple of early spring lineups and what they could indicate.

1. The second base job is Holliday's to lose - Not only has he gotten most of the starts there (he's starting at SS today), Westburg has not played 2B at all yet (he's starting at 3B). Westburg has not played 2B the spring, so it seems he just needs to beat out Urias for the every day job.
 
2. The third base job is Westburg's to lose - Besides a start at SS yesterday, he's been playing 3B mostly with Urias starting at 2B and 3B. This does not bode well for Coby Mayo's chances of making the team. Assuming Urias is not traded, he becomes a 3B/2B/DH against LHP sometimes spelling both Holliday and Westburg.

3. Kjerstad, Cowser and Stowers are battling for one spot (maybe)- Both Kjerstad and Stowers are getting looks in left and right field, and Cowser is getting a lot of time in CF but I think they know he can slide over to the others if needed. Cowser is off to the best start offensively, Kjerstad is the guy they probably want to keep, and Stowers is the guy they would have the least issues getting part-time work to. But is there room if O'Hearn is on the roster?

4. McKenna is getting every opportunity to stick as 5th OF - He's getting a ton of time in the outfield and has gone hitless so far. He's a good handcuff for Mullins in CF, but most of us thought Mateo would be in that role this year. Mateo has only played SS and has not logged an inning in the outfield yet. Grant it, Gunnar has been out so Mateo has been needed, but you would figure he would get more looks out there in games if they were really looking at him as a 5th OF too. Daniel Johnson has been playing well and getting a lot of looks, but he bats left-handed and doesn't hit left-handed pitching so would be poor handcuff for Mullins in CF. McKenna is out of options and may not make it through waivers.

5. O'Hearn is getting a lot of 1B time - Surprised we have not seen Santander get some 1B time this spring, so it appears O'Hearn will be neck deep in the 1B/DH rotation which begs the question "Where do Cowser or Kjerstad fit on the roster and where are they going to get their PAs?" It seems like the roster can only fit Kjerstad/Cowser/Stowers or O'Hearn? 

 

I agree with pretty much everything, besides Urias being a guy who platoons against left handed pitchers. Even though he’s a righty batter, for his career, Urias has hit righties better than lefties. Urias seems destined for just a general utility infielder position. Ideally we could trade one of Mateo or Urias to make room for both Holliday and Mayo. 

Edited March 1 by RarityFlaherty

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Does Holliday make OD, but at the expense of Gunnar on the IL?

Gunnar is taking full effort BP, zero reason to think he’ll be on the IL.  

[terpoh]

21 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Does Holliday make OD, but at the expense of Gunnar on the IL?

It appears that it’s McKenna vs Cowser for the last bench spot. Does losing Hilliard on waivers all but guarantee that McKenna gets the nod early on because we couldn’t sneak Hilliard as depth to AAA?

Now that Irvin, and his no options are in rotation, could we start out with a 5 man bench, since we have more up/down flexibility in the pen?  

Gunnar is fine is sounds like and is said to be on track to join the spring lineups next week.