Jackson Holliday 2024

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

That makes no sense at all based on anything I’ve seen.  What plays has he made that an average 2B wouldn’t make?  None that I’ve seen.  On the other hand, I’ve seen him boot a certain DP grounder and only get one out, and not catch a tough outfield pop up.  Now, I haven’t watched every inning of every game.  Maybe I’ve missed 3 above average plays.   But I doubt it.  

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

The only "above average" play I can recall him making was he made a nice pick with the infield drawn in and a hot shot to his left.  He didn't get the runner at the plate but that was not a play that is made every time.

[interloper]

I care more about Holliday hitting so we can stop having silly threads/discussions like this, than I do because it would benefit the team. The team is fine even without him hitting. Not so sure about the board. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Don't have to.

1- The Fangraphs quote is sufficient.  The 45 seconds that took me was enough.

2- You've already decided to change the narrative to "major writer" from "every writer and publication".  Once you start moving goalposts it's time to move on.

NO ONE was shocked when Jones didn't go first.  This wasn't Harper, it wasn't Strasburg it wasn't even Rutschman. 

You don't deserve more of my time.

Trust me.  I never wanted any of your time in the first place.  

[BRobinsonfan]

The Jackson Holliday experience this year and the Colton Cowser experience last year are good cautionary tales for those who advocate for veterans to be moved en masse in favor of calling up our top prospects. While I'm confident that Holliday will be fine in the long term, he is overmatched and needs adjustment. Maybe he gets on track in the next 10 or 15 games, or maybe he needs to be sent back down to work things out in a lower pressure environment? Whatever they do, I'm glad Elias and company are the team we have in place to make those decisions. 

[btdart20]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

That makes no sense at all based on anything I’ve seen.  What plays has he made that an average 2B wouldn’t make?  None that I’ve seen.  On the other hand, I’ve seen him boot a certain DP grounder and only get one out, and not catch a tough outfield pop up.  Now, I haven’t watched every inning of every game.  Maybe I’ve missed 3 above average plays.   But I doubt it.  

I can think of one plus play.  Hot grounder on the 1B side.  Not all-world difficulty, but I think still a good play.

[emmett16]

I think Jackson has looked terrific.  Am I'm not talking about results, but his approach and his body language.  The kid has struggled mightily, and you wouldn't know it by looking at him.  Thats one this that I find super impressive with Jackson, he's so damn professional and even keeled, especially for a 20 y/o.  You can't tell if he just hit a HR or if he struck out.  I think his approach has been great 1 - he's being aggressive and getting "A" swings off early in the count often, even if he isn't pounding the ball yet 2- he's not expanding the zone and changing his approach based on his poor results.  Thats darn impressive for someone in the spotlight struggling.  He's been getting pitched to like its game 7 of the WS, he's been getting some really bad calls, and he just keeps chugging along.  He's started to make hard contact in the last couple of games.  It's just a matter of time before he gets hot.  I've been incredibly impressed in his performance to date.  

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, RZNJ said:

It could be worse.  He could be in low A with 21 strikeouts in 35 PA.

https://www.milb.com/player/druw-jones-702258

Or this guy or this guy or remember when some pundits wanted Elias to go college and select Jacob Berry. Brooks Lee is the only guy even vaguely mentioned with the 1st overall pick who has done well besides Holliday.

Holliday will be fine. He started taking some good pitches and hit a couple of balls hard the last few games. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

That makes no sense at all based on anything I’ve seen.  What plays has he made that an average 2B wouldn’t make?  None that I’ve seen.  On the other hand, I’ve seen him boot a certain DP grounder and only get one out, and not catch a tough outfield pop up.  Now, I haven’t watched every inning of every game.  Maybe I’ve missed 3 above average plays.   But I doubt it.  

I'll be honest, I found the OAA for Holliday very odd. I don't recall him making an amazing play defensively. 

As big a proponent of OAA that I've been, we've been seeing some questionable things of late with this as well as catch percentages not lining up with where balls are graphed (or the eye test). 

They haven't released a lot of fielding data this year so I'm wondering if there are some errors going on with the collection or processing of the data.

[Satyr3206]

I will say another thing. With his swing when it comes together he is going to be really good. His swing isn't quite as nice as Ken Griffey, Jr.  But it's close.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Pickles said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

The only "above average" play I can recall him making was he made a nice pick with the infield drawn in and a hot shot to his left.  He didn't get the runner at the plate but that was not a play that is made every time.

They have him rated +2 going to 3B side which would be to his right? I dunno. I don't recall any tough plays that he made that way. Maybe he was positioned up the middle and the system didn't adequately establish his start position? Then gave him credit for a great up the middle play. I think there are system errors happening.

[Tony-OH]

Ok I went back and watched his plays and I think this play here probably gave him a plus one. There were two others to his right that was decent, but not sure I saw +1 plays besides this first one. 

https://www.mlb.com/video/tyler-o-neill-grounds-out-second-baseman-jackson-holliday-to-first-basema?q=PrimaryFielderId %3D [702616] AND HitResult %3D ["Out"] Order By Timestamp DESC&cp=MIXED&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/00u7jzgkdtP9kH55c356/reels - 10 plays, maybe the first one could have been considered a plus.

 

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ok I went back and watched his plays and I think this play here probably gave him a plus one. There were two others to his right that was decent, but not sure I saw +1 plays besides this first one. 

https://www.mlb.com/video/tyler-o-neill-grounds-out-second-baseman-jackson-holliday-to-first-basema?q=PrimaryFielderId %3D [702616] AND HitResult %3D ["Out"] Order By Timestamp DESC&cp=MIXED&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/00u7jzgkdtP9kH55c356/reels - 10 plays, maybe the first one could have been considered a plus.

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone who has watched all of his games would say he's +3 OAA as of now. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ok I went back and watched his plays and I think this play here probably gave him a plus one. There were two others to his right that was decent, but not sure I saw +1 plays besides this first one. 

https://www.mlb.com/video/tyler-o-neill-grounds-out-second-baseman-jackson-holliday-to-first-basema?q=PrimaryFielderId %3D [702616] AND HitResult %3D ["Out"] Order By Timestamp DESC&cp=MIXED&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/00u7jzgkdtP9kH55c356/reels - 10 plays, maybe the first one could have been considered a plus.

 

Yeah, the play behind 2nd is nice but doesn’t seem like anything special.   It’s interesting.  OAA loves him!

 

Edited April 17 by RZNJ

[RZNJ]

Like on EVERY big board you can find.  

[bpilktree]

He just got a little out in front of that today and off the end a bit but good to see him lifting ball last few at bats.