Bullpen 2024

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

It was bound to be though given the usage volume that Bautista was expected and able to handle compared to what Kimbrel can handle.

The rest of the pen is simply not strong enough to handle a “lighter” workload from the closer. 

Before Bautista landed on the IL last season (and missed the final month), he had 9 appearances where he got more than 3 outs. And that includes 5 appearances where he got 6 outs. And doesn’t even speak to the frequency with which he was used.

Those frequent high leverage innings have to be covered from somewhere/somebody.

The SP needs to be better than it was last year. It needs to be and should be. 
 

As I’ve said the Orioles recently have played in a bunch of winning, high leverage type of games. Only been a handful of 7-2, 11-4 type games. 
 

You are basically saying what I’m saying and that is this is mainly about Kimbrel right now. If he is healthy we can get thru this. 

[Warehouse]

I think we trade Cash Considerations for Kyle Tyler in the next couple days, at least to provide some depth in Norfolk.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s the problem. Hoping for guys to unexpectedly step up.  Consistently trying to rely on guys to “come out of nowhere” isn’t the way to build the pen.

Well, I guess we could have paid Robert Stephenson $33 mm for 3 years and been exactly where we are now, but $33 mm poorer.   

I wouldn’t have minded another high leverage reliever, but they don’t always work out either.  
 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I guess we could have paid Robert Stephenson $33 mm for 3 years and been exactly where we are now, but $33 mm poorer.   

I wouldn’t have minded another high leverage reliever, but they don’t always work out either.  
 

No, they don’t always work out but if your process is adding guys with high end numbers that you should be looking for, you take your chances.

Consistently relying on guys who have been out of baseball, been journeyman, etc…isn’t a great way to build things.

[Moshagge3]

Look, if even Tampa Bay can't figure out their bullpen this year, what chance does anyone else have? Finding half a dozen random guys each year to throw 50 innings of 99 mph fastballs with insane sliders before their arms explode is their whole thing.

[RZNJ]

I don't disagree that the bullpen is a worry and more could have been done.  However,  if Kimbrel doesn't blow those 2 saves we're 19-8 with Bradish and Means coming back, Wells and Perez in the future and lots of potential bullpen reinforcements.    We went from sitting pretty to full on panic mode.

[sportsfan8703]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I would have said our pen was a little thin going into the year.  Kimbrel’s a downgrade from Felix, Hall is gone, and Cano and Coulombe sort of caught lightning in a bottle last year and may not be as good.  At the same time, you never know who will unexpectedly step up, as someone usually seems to do.  Adding Suarez and someone else from the rotation will help.  So, we’ll see.   

The bullpen was thin last year at the trade deadline.  Baker had an outstanding April and had fallen off big time.  Cano was getting bailed out by Bautista a lot.  Elias tried to fix it by acquiring Fuji.  We lucked into Webb.  

The Fix - I think Suarez will help out big time.  I also think that Means will be a real weapon too.  Perez finally put it together at the end of last year.  Wells is an option too.  

Some dude throwing 103 isn't walking through that door, but we do have options.  The starters going deeper into games, and the guys coming back from the IL, will get us to the trade deadline.   

[Frobby]

Just now, RZNJ said:

I don't disagree that the bullpen is a worry and more could have been done.  However,  if Kimbrel doesn't blow those 2 saves we're 19-8 with Bradish and Means coming back, Wells and Perez in the future and lots of potential bullpen reinforcements.    We went from sitting pretty to full on panic mode.

It always figured that Kimbrel would have some rough spells.   I’m just concerned about him staying healthy.  If he does, he won’t have too many meltdowns like those two.   But at 35, you never know how he’ll endure the long season.

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The SP needs to be better than it was last year. It needs to be and should be. 
 

As I’ve said the Orioles recently have played in a bunch of winning, high leverage type of games. Only been a handful of 7-2, 11-4 type games. 
 

You are basically saying what I’m saying and that is this is mainly about Kimbrel right now. If he is healthy we can get thru this. 

No, I don’t think Kimbrel’s health/age will allow him to handle the kind of work load that this team requires.

The middle relief is not good. It wasn’t good last year and it’s not good this year.

Even when the SP gives you “a good start” the last 3 innings are more times than not going to have to be covered. We lead a game 7-0 last week and almost lost it because the bridge from the SP to get to Kimbrel is not good enough.

There have been games this year where we should not have needed a Kimbrel appearance. But slowly and surely the opposition chips away at leads because of our substandard performance from the middle relievers. The consequence from that is that Kimbrel is being used too much.

We have become the type of team that we so often took advantage of the last couple of seasons, where you say “all we have to do is hang in there against the starter and get into that bullpen. We have good odds that they will eventually give it up”.

The rest of the roster is excellent and will still be a playoff team regardless. But I don’t think that we will win as many games because we are not going to see the crazy success in tight ballgames (like last year) due to the weaker pen. 

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Look, if even Tampa Bay can't figure out their bullpen this year, what chance does anyone else have? Finding half a dozen random guys each year to throw 50 innings of 99 mph fastballs with insane sliders before their arms explode is their whole thing.

From what I have seen, from the lowly A’s, they sure have that part figured out. 

IMO it’s not mission impossible.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It always figured that Kimbrel would have some rough spells.   I’m just concerned about him staying healthy.  If he does, he won’t have too many meltdowns like those two.   But at 35, you never know how he’ll endure the long season.

He had  lower velocity to start the season but plus command of his fastball and curveball.   He dominated.   Pulling the ball to his glove side and burying breaking balls is a sign of overthrowing.   Injury?  Trying to do too much?

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

From what I have seen, from the lowly A’s, they sure have that part figured out. 

IMO it’s not mission impossible.

Not mission impossible but very few, if any teams, can match that 1-2 punch. They wouldn't even have that if Miller hadn't gotten injured last year.  He'd be in their rotation probably struggling to go 5.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Not mission impossible but very few, if any teams, can match that 1-2 punch. They wouldn't even have that if Miller hadn't gotten injured last year.  He'd be in their rotation probably struggling to go 5.

I’m not saying that we can find another Mason Miller. But what I am saying is that other teams have a good/effective bullpen and I was citing the A’s as a team that does.

IMO if they (and other teams) can do it, so can we. Just because the Rays don’t have a great pen this year doesn’t mean no one can, or that it’s some sort of hopeless endeavor.

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He had  lower velocity to start the season but plus command of his fastball and curveball.   He dominated.   Pulling the ball to his glove side and burying breaking balls is a sign of overthrowing.   Injury?  Trying to do too much?

Good take.  Let's also not forget he almost blew a save against the Angels.  We got extremely lucky that with the bases loaded and Trout up.  

I'm hoping that Suarez will be a big boost to the A squad of the pen.  Baumann should go.  What will Means look like as a reliever?  Will he gain a couple of ticks on his FB?  We just cannot afford to carry struggling relievers this year.  We did that with Perez last year, and have done it so far with Baumann this year.  We need options and results.  

[sportsfan8703]

Does Perez get one more rehab appearance in AAA?  He got into games on 4/24 and 4/27.  We could really use him as a LHP to face Soto tonight though.