Gunnar Henderson 2024

[theobird]

5 hours ago, Remember The Alomar said:

He grades out as very good infielder according to all major defensive metrics as well as the eye test. 

Better make an appointment with your eye Doctor

[Moose Milligan]

Looks like he's found his groove again with the bat.  Just in time for the playoff stretch and hopefully into the playoffs.

 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Gunnar Henderson is a corner outfielder or first baseman. Baseball has gone crazy forcing their premiere hitters to play premiere defensive positions. Cal Ripkens don't grow on trees.

Cal made 25 errors at SS the year he won MVP and the O’s won the WS.  He followed that up by making 26 errors each of the next two years.   I guess they should have moved him to 1B, but Eddie was already there.  

Edited September 7 by Frobby

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Cal made 25 errors at SS the year he won MVP and the O’s won the WS.  He followed that up by making 26 errors each of the next two years.   I guess they should have moved him to 1B, but Eddie was already there.  

This is one time I can’t believe you even responded to such a clown post.   

[foxfield]

27 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This is one time I can’t believe you even responded to such a clown post.   

Someone’s gotta do it. It’s become like a whack a mole thing. They pop up everywhere. 

[Uli2001]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Cal made 25 errors at SS the year he won MVP and the O’s won the WS.  He followed that up by making 26 errors each of the next two years.   I guess they should have moved him to 1B, but Eddie was already there. 

My wild prediction is that Gunnar Henderson will never be as good a defensive shortstop as Ripken. He will never win a gold glove as SS, much less two. But keep the Ripken comparisons coming, so you can ruin Henderson even more.

The problem on this board is that it can't tolerate any criticism of the team's star players.

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

My wild prediction is that Gunnar Henderson will never be as good a defensive shortstop as Ripken. He will never win a gold glove as SS, much less two. But keep the Ripken comparisons coming, so you can ruin Henderson even more.

The problem on this board is that it can't tolerate any criticism of the team's star players.

He’s not comparing them. He’s showing why your post was uneducated.

The problem  with you is everything is negative and you don’t really comes across as someone who is knowledgeable or someone that wants to hear others out.

So while you are judging the whole board, look in the mirror.

[Aristotelian]

21 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

My wild prediction is that Gunnar Henderson will never be as good a defensive shortstop as Ripken. He will never win a gold glove as SS, much less two. But keep the Ripken comparisons coming, so you can ruin Henderson even more.

The problem on this board is that it can't tolerate any criticism of the team's star players.

There might be a middle ground between 1B and Ripken. Your original statement was absurd. All the metrics have Gunnar at least average at SS and that is a huge asset with his offense. He can be maddening at times but he makes enough spectacular plays to make up for the misplays

 

[Moose Milligan]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

Cal made 25 errors at SS the year he won MVP and the O’s won the WS.  He followed that up by making 26 errors each of the next two years.   I guess they should have moved him to 1B, but Eddie was already there.  

In about 300+ more chances.  

1 hour ago, Uli2001 said:

My wild prediction is that Gunnar Henderson will never be as good a defensive shortstop as Ripken. He will never win a gold glove as SS, much less two. But keep the Ripken comparisons coming, so you can ruin Henderson even more.

The problem on this board is that it can't tolerate any criticism of the team's star players.

That said, he doesn't need to be as good as of a defender as Ripken to provide the same value as Ripken.  You are aware of how WAR works, correct?  Gunnar's value this year matches Cal's value in his '83 MVP season.  

Even though Frobby's argument about the number of errors made is flawed due to Ripken playing in an era where there were WAY more balls put in play and less strikeouts, the point is still there.  Ripken got better as a defender as his career went on...to say a player as talented as Gunnar can't do the same is absurd.

There's plenty of criticism to level at Gunnar but it's also hard to argue with an 8 win season.  That's MVP level territory.

[Remember The Alomar]

13 hours ago, theobird said:

Better make an appointment with your eye Doctor

lol

[Uli2001]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

In about 300+ more chances.  […]

There's plenty of criticism to level at Gunnar but it's also hard to argue with an 8 win season.  That's MVP level territory.

Thank you. I knew there was something bogus about that post. I saw Cal play SS. And Gunnar is no Cal at SS. Not even close.

And this is coming from a big fan of Gunnar. I would like to see him play a traditional power position. Call me old fashioned. He’s hurting the team at SS. 

[Moose Milligan]

21 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Thank you. I knew there was something bogus about that post. I saw Cal play SS. And Gunnar is no Cal at SS. Not even close.

And this is coming from a big fan of Gunnar. I would like to see him play a traditional power position. Call me old fashioned. He’s hurting the team at SS. 

Except he really isn't hurting the team at SS.  Again, he's an 8+ WAR player this year.  I don't know why anyone would want to argue for moving him off a position where he's performing at an MVP level.  This season is already as valuable as Ripken's '83 MVP season and more valuable than any other season Ripken had except 1984 and his monster 1991 campaign.

I saw Cal play at shortstop, too.  And I think when we all think of Cal at shortstop, we think of the refined version....the guy that made 3 errors in a season (and somehow lost the Gold Glove to Ozzie f'ing Guillen) and the guy that had a whole chapter dedicated to him in George Will's "Men at Work."

You neglected to respond to the idea that Gunnar can get better at the position.  There's a lot to like with him defensively already, but he's not a fully finished product and I don't think anyone here is arguing that he is.  I suspect that if you took Cal in his second season and matched that up with Gunnar, you'd see some similarities.  I also suspect that Gunnar isn't the defender that he'll be in 5 or 6 years from now, just like Ripken wasn't the best defender at SS in his early seasons.

Gunnar is a 5 tool player.  There's nothing that he can't do on a baseball field and I'm sure if you put him in a "traditional power position" like a corner outfield spot, he'd be just fine.

But I find it funny that you want to be called old fashioned, yet here we are discussing Cal Ripken, the guy that broke the mold for what a shortstop can be and turned it into a power position.  Ripken was ultimate anti-traditionalist of the position and responsible for the slew of power hitting shortstops that came in after him.  And quite frankly, I don't know why we're talking about power when we're debating defense.

[accinfo]

37 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Except he really isn't hurting the team at SS.  Again, he's an 8+ WAR player this year.  I don't know why anyone would want to argue for moving him off a position where he's performing at an MVP level.  This season is already as valuable as Ripken's '83 MVP season and more valuable than any other season Ripken had except 1984 and his monster 1991 campaign.

I saw Cal play at shortstop, too.  And I think when we all think of Cal at shortstop, we think of the refined version....the guy that made 3 errors in a season (and somehow lost the Gold Glove to Ozzie f'ing Guillen) and the guy that had a whole chapter dedicated to him in George Will's "Men at Work."

You neglected to respond to the idea that Gunnar can get better at the position.  There's a lot to like with him defensively already, but he's not a fully finished product and I don't think anyone here is arguing that he is.  I suspect that if you took Cal in his second season and matched that up with Gunnar, you'd see some similarities.  I also suspect that Gunnar isn't the defender that he'll be in 5 or 6 years from now, just like Ripken wasn't the best defender at SS in his early seasons.

Gunnar is a 5 tool player.  There's nothing that he can't do on a baseball field and I'm sure if you put him in a "traditional power position" like a corner outfield spot, he'd be just fine.

But I find it funny that you want to be called old fashioned, yet here we are discussing Cal Ripken, the guy that broke the mold for what a shortstop can be and turned it into a power position.  Ripken was ultimate anti-traditionalist of the position and responsible for the slew of power hitting shortstops that came in after him.  And quite frankly, I don't know why we're talking about power when we're debating defense.

Again, it couldn’t have been said better.   Gunnar is in his second year and will more than likely get better at everything he does as a baseball player.  Which is something to look forward to.  

[baltfan]

3 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Thank you. I knew there was something bogus about that post. I saw Cal play SS. And Gunnar is no Cal at SS. Not even close.

And this is coming from a big fan of Gunnar. I would like to see him play a traditional power position. Call me old fashioned. He’s hurting the team at SS. 

Did you think he was hurting the team at shortstop in the first half?

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Except he really isn't hurting the team at SS.  Again, he's an 8+ WAR player this year.  I don't know why anyone would want to argue for moving him off a position where he's performing at an MVP level.  This season is already as valuable as Ripken's '83 MVP season and more valuable than any other season Ripken had except 1984 and his monster 1991 campaign.

I saw Cal play at shortstop, too.  And I think when we all think of Cal at shortstop, we think of the refined version....the guy that made 3 errors in a season (and somehow lost the Gold Glove to Ozzie f'ing Guillen) and the guy that had a whole chapter dedicated to him in George Will's "Men at Work."

You neglected to respond to the idea that Gunnar can get better at the position.  There's a lot to like with him defensively already, but he's not a fully finished product and I don't think anyone here is arguing that he is.  I suspect that if you took Cal in his second season and matched that up with Gunnar, you'd see some similarities.  I also suspect that Gunnar isn't the defender that he'll be in 5 or 6 years from now, just like Ripken wasn't the best defender at SS in his early seasons.

Gunnar is a 5 tool player.  There's nothing that he can't do on a baseball field and I'm sure if you put him in a "traditional power position" like a corner outfield spot, he'd be just fine.

But I find it funny that you want to be called old fashioned, yet here we are discussing Cal Ripken, the guy that broke the mold for what a shortstop can be and turned it into a power position.  Ripken was ultimate anti-traditionalist of the position and responsible for the slew of power hitting shortstops that came in after him.  And quite frankly, I don't know why we're talking about power when we're debating defense.

It’s also possible he would be at 7-8 WAR at third if his defense was much better, which I think it could be.