MLB changes record books..adds in Negro League stats

[DrungoHazewood]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:56 PM, Malike said:

Sounds like they may include the stats at some point but not in "release 1.0"

Several outlets have reported that the Howe Sports Bureau credited Aaron with a strong three-month run in Indianapolis, including five homers. If those home runs were added to the database, he'd jump up to 760, not enough to bypass Barry Bonds (762) as the all-time home run king but close enough to be interesting.

But the era of Negro Leagues getting added to the database runs from 1920 to 1948, "at which point the Negro National League collapsed and the World Series was a dead letter," said Major League Baseball historian John Thorn, a Beloit College alumnus.

"The Negro American League continued to play, with an added emphasis on barnstorming games," Thorn said. "So, our decision not to include the Indianapolis Clowns post-1948 or Henry Aaron at all had nothing to do with either (team or player), but instead our evaluation of the major-league caliber of the surviving NAL."

In other words, the league wasn't at the same level as Major League, and "barnstorming" games included a variety of competition levels.

"Ernie Banks, Toni Stone and other noteworthy players came into the NAL after 1948," Thorn said. "Their Negro League record will not, in this Release 1.0 of the newly integrated MLB database, be included."

If John Thorn says something about baseball history is true, who am I to disagree? I know some stuff about baseball history, Thorn knows pretty much all the stuff and has written multiple excellent books about it, and was anointed the official historian of MLB.

[Jagwar]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Do you know that it was a completely different quality of pitching and hitting? Again, I need to read the darned book, but there is a very well researched SABR publication entitled "The Negro Leagues are Major Leagues".

Until I read that, my position remains that if we're going to count the Federal League, and the AL/NL during wars, and the Union Association, and the early days of the American Association and all that as "Major" and all their records count, then it's hard to argue against the Negro Leagues getting the same treatment.

And yes, that same argument can be applied to at least the NPB, and probably other foreign leagues, too. And many years of high level independent minor leagues like the 1920s IL, and several different periods of the PCL.

I think we're saying the same thing, or at least we rhyme. If they're going to include one league that has completely different quality of play, why not all leagues? Why stop at the Negro Leagues?

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think we're saying the same thing, or at least we rhyme. If they're going to include one league that has completely different quality of play, why not all leagues? Why stop at the Negro Leagues?

Agreed, with the caveat that I'm not convinced that (for example) the 1927 Negro Leagues were a completely different quality of play compared to the 1927 AL/NL. My guess is that if the MLB quality was 1.00 and the International League was .90, then the Negro Leagues of that year were .97 or something.

[Frobby]

Now I’m reading that Josh Gibson’s family is pressing for MLB to name the MVP award for him. 

[Malike]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Now I’m reading that Josh Gibson’s family is pressing for MLB to name the MVP award for him. 

I heard that as well. They are also talking about the possibility of a "slash line award" to the players with the best slash line each year and naming it after Gibson. It's starting to feel a bit tedious with all of the awards in my opinion.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:15 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

In backyard baseball in 1982 I kept stats for the whole neighborhood on graph paper that I attached to my family fridge. The graph paper is long gone, but I will forever remember that I hit .951 with 120 homers.

But what was your EV.  You must have been an early bloomer.  Peaked too early like my dad.  Listening to stories from my dad, he was the equal of Ted Williams at age 12.