The 2024 Trade Deadline

[Rbiggs2525]

11 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I think I just saw the pinnacle of Jon Morosi being a mass entertainer rather than a journalist.

He just speculated the winning offer the Orioles should do for Tarik Skubal is Jackson Holliday, Coby Mayo and either Samuel Basallo or Kyle Stowers.

He does not understand these things very well.    He is just saying names casual fans have heard of to build excitement.

Even Mark DeRosa and Al Leiter on the couch reacted like, "that was dumb".

It is dumb but that may be the ask. As I stated before there is basically no chance we get Skubal.

[1fingerwillie]

12 hours ago, KojiSplit said:

You're underestimating how bad of a GM Chris Getz is. Just because there are only 30 of these jobs available doesn’t mean each GM is competent at their position.

Like any profession, the sports world is filled with idiots. In no way should a pure mediocre rental like Kikuchi land a much better haul than Fedde.

No I am not. You are taking two assumptions that many people agree with (Getz is incompetent and the trade was bad for CWS) and jumping to an absurd conclusion that Getz would make a trade with team 1 without thinking to discuss a better trade with the other 28 teams. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah that's pretty terrible. Losing a lot of respect for Morosi this deadline. I used to think he was one of the good ones, but now I'm not sure he's any better than a Bowden or Heyman. 

All 3 of them are clowns and really out of touch with the actual value of players. And Heyman is the only one who ever actually has any inside info since he gets it from Boras. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Man, I can just hear Jon Morosi's stupid voice in my head saying we should trade Holliday, Mayo, "and either Samuel Basallo or Kyle Stowers" for Skubal.

It is simultaneously hilarious and infuriating.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t know who’s advocating this? I haven’t seen it here or elsewhere.

However, one of Holliday, Mayo, or Basallo should almost certainly be able to land us an equal talent on the pitching side. Which is where we are very weak.

Is there an equal talent on the pitching side?

Now I admit to be lazy and only looking at one spot but Fangraphs current prospect board doesn't list a pitcher in their top 10.  They have Andrew Painter at #11.  After that you have to go to #18 to find a pitcher.

Edited July 30 by Can_of_corn

[bluedog]

23 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

In pro sports, you don't get to keep saying, "Well I tried". That wouldn't be an acceptable outcome for any player or manager, why should it be any different for a general manager?

Other teams are finding ways to add talent, whether through trade or FA acquisitions. The Orioles play within the same set of rules as everyone else. Elias' job is to figure it out.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh and this is in no way shape or form meant to be personal toward you. But I don't EVER believe in making excuses. IMO that is a defeatist mentality. 

What excuses is anyone making for Elias? He's had arguably the best trade deadline of any GM except for Mike Girsh when the value sent out is compared to the value recieved.

His team is leading the AL East and is one of the favorites to win the world series. He has the best farm system in the game and a contention window of 5 - 10 years with almost no payroll and new ownership willing to spend. Elias created the scenario the Orioles are in. It was HIS plan.

It is inconceivable to me how any fan has the ego to suggest they know better than one of the best GMs in baseball when they have no insight into the actual conversations being had between GMs or the actual deals that have been put on the table.

What trade that has actually happened so far, would you have had the O's make? Kikuchi? 

The only deal that's happened where I feel the O's might have missed out was the Fedde deal due to how little the Cardinals gave up. But its clear that the Dodgers specifically wanted Edman and the White Sox specifically wanted young middle infielder prospects with really high OPB (which the O's don't have analogues for). I have faith that if Elias could have swung that deal using Urias and 2 or 3 of our 19 - 20 year old prospects, he would have.

It is very possible that the cost of Crochet or Skubal is 2 of the big 3. I'm not making that deal, are you?

Seriously, wtf more do you want than the one of the best teams in the history of our franchise with the brightest future of any organization in the majors?

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is there an equal talent on the pitching side?

Now I admit to be lazy and only looking at one spot but Fangraphs current prospect board doesn't list a pitcher in their top 10.  They have Andrew Painter at #11.  After that you have to go to #18 to find a pitcher.

I need to clarify. IMO it does not have to be a pitcher with an equal amount of control or the same age or at the same level.

IMO we need a talent infusion on the pitching side of the org. And since we haven't been willing to go the draft and develop route or the FA route. What other option is available but trade?

[1fingerwillie]

43 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

In pro sports, you don't get to keep saying, "Well I tried". That wouldn't be an acceptable outcome for any player or manager, why should it be any different for a general manager?

Other teams are finding ways to add talent, whether through trade or FA acquisitions. The Orioles play within the same set of rules as everyone else. Elias' job is to figure it out.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh and this is in no way shape or form meant to be personal toward you. But I don't EVER believe in making excuses. IMO that is a defeatist mentality. 

Trading away elite talent at a chance to win 1 is not bold.

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I need to clarify. IMO it does not have to be a pitcher with an equal amount of control or the same age or at the same level.

IMO we need a talent infusion on the pitching side of the org. And since we haven't been willing to go the draft and develop route or the FA route. What other option is available but trade?

I expect us to be players in FA next year and for years to come with the new ownership. Rubenstein is not going to shy away from a $200M+ payroll.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I need to clarify. IMO it does not have to be a pitcher with an equal amount of control or the same age or at the same level.

IMO we need a talent infusion on the pitching side of the org. And since we haven't been willing to go the draft and develop route or the FA route. What other option is available but trade?

I'm not arguing with that, I'm just saying "equal" is going to be hard.

You are probably going to have to "lose" the trades.

[bluedog]

Just now, 1fingerwillie said:

Trading away elite talent at a chance to win 1 is not bold.

Agreed. It's what really poorly run organizations do.

[warrior21]

14 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Man, I can just hear Jon Morosi's stupid voice in my head saying we should trade Holliday, Mayo, "and either Samuel Basallo or Kyle Stowers" for Skubal.

It is simultaneously hilarious and infuriating.

BUT...what if we could put together a package headlined by one of the big three, plus Stowers or Kjerstad and some other pieces for both Skubal and Flaherty? Rotation is set for this year and strengthened for next year.

 

Find a bullpen piece as the cherry on top.

Edited July 30 by warrior21

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Man, I can just hear Jon Morosi's stupid voice in my head saying we should trade Holliday, Mayo, "and either Samuel Basallo or Kyle Stowers" for Skubal.

It is simultaneously hilarious and infuriating.

I don't see how that would be realistic since no other pitcher in the last decade has commanded a hall of 2 top 12-15 prospects. And certainly someone (while uber talented) yet still has a short resume like Skubal, cannot bring back that kind of haul.

However, IMO one of Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo should be on the table for a top end pitcher with control beyond this season.

I have a hard time believing that no one would want any of them. The issue is if Elias is willing to surrender one? I guess we will see by 6!

[CTBear]

It’s tough right now how a lot of these potential sellers are big market teams who just don’t care that much about shedding payroll but are desperate for talent i.e. the Giants, Cubs, Blue Jays and Angels. They constantly overpay for second tier free agents while losing out on the big fish. They’ve spent so much money but just can’t find a way to be competitive every year to make the postseason and have success when they get there. You expect one of them to finally say enough is enough and do a rebuild but they just don’t care about wasting money. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, 1fingerwillie said:

Trading away elite talent at a chance to win 1 is not bold.

Why do we only get a chance at winning 1 if we make a trade?

I get that we all want the O's to contend for the long haul. But IMO it is going to require much more than Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo coming to the Major leagues.

We are going to have to continue to draft and develop position prospects well, spend significant money (in either extensions or FA), and find a way to infuse this roster with legit pitching talent. If Burnes walks in the offseason, what do you have even if you retain and integrate Mayo and Holliday.

If do not trade, how do you recommend that we balance the roster with pitching talent that can hold up it's end of the bargain?

Right now we are surrendering 6 runs over a sustain period (6 weeks). Holliday and Mayo cannot fix that. And this is with Burnes. Are we expecting to successfully outscore teams in high scoring games in October round after round? Or even through the regular season next year?