Holliday mimicking Ohtani?

[Hallas]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If all you need is a hit...

That was the scenario.

 

 

There has to be some built in assumption that if the guy walks (which Soto and Ohtani are much more likely to do) then the next guy has at least a league-average chance of getting a hit.  That tilts the scales pretty strongly in Ohtani's or Soto's favor.  Especially Soto's.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

There has to be some built in assumption that if the guy walks (which Soto and Ohtani are much more likely to do) then the next guy has at least a league-average chance of getting a hit.  That tilts the scales pretty strongly in Ohtani's or Soto's favor.  Especially Soto's.

If a hit wins the game and anything else you lose.

That was the exact scenario we are looking at.  You got me in the on deck circle.

Is it silly?  Sure. 

[Hallas]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If a hit wins the game and anything else you lose.

That was the exact scenario we are looking at.  You got me in the on deck circle.

Is it silly?  Sure. 

It's not really even possible unless you're counting the possibility that someone gets picked off or thrown out trying to steal.  Highly unlikely if a base hit wins the game.

[OriolesMagic83]

If Holliday is trying to make his batting stance like Ohtani, that sounds like a good idea to me.  His old stance seemed very off balance and was probably hard to stay in a groove and have the exact stance over a long period of time.  

Other than adding an ace, Holliday becoming an above average hitter is probably the biggest improvement the O's can make this offseason.

[Orange]

When you pull one leg off of the ground you have to balance on the one that is left... Keeping your front toe on the dirt has got to lead to more stillness and control. I could see a leg kick moving your full body forward and through the baseball thereby producing more power... but it can't be more controlled or balanced. And Ohtani doesn't seem to lack any power.

[Jagwar]

I just want Holliday not to stink at hitting. 

[Allan Bryant]

6 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

No one needed a reminder that Jackson Holliday is not Ohtani. 

That’s why I said he wasn’t

[Allan Bryant]

6 hours ago, lazyjc22 said:

You can learn a lot from the best in the game.  

Totally agree 

[Hallas]

1 minute ago, Allan Bryant said:

That’s why I said he wasn’t

[Allan Bryant]

4 minutes ago, Hallas said:

You’re welcome sir 

[Jim'sKid26]

A lot of you guys are students of hitting. Any idea why Holiday struggled so much to hit MLB level hitting? FWIW, I get that MLB pitchers are better and throw nasty stuff. My question is why a guy who was so successful at such a young age, which means to me that he is exceptionally gifted with the bat in his hands, seemed to be completely lost at the plate? Was it the high leg kick? Was it the overwhelming pressure of expectations? To put it simply, why didn't he hit and will he likely be able to figure it out next year? 

Anyone have a nuanced opinion?

[theobird]

First of all, I am not a hitting mechanics expert. But I think to keep his upper body and head quiet is important. i think the big leg kick makes that pretty difficult. So I like his new toe tap approach, but time will tell

[Satyr3206]

6 minutes ago, theobird said:

First of all, I am not a hitting mechanics expert. But I think to keep his upper body and head quiet is important. i think the big leg kick makes that pretty difficult. So I like his new toe tap approach, but time will tell

You are right. The leg kick simply screws up timing. You can't do that against ML pitchers. Strike zone awareness is also critical.

The other thing I am very concerned about is the analytical driven stuff. While in the big picture it does help, you can't have effective at bats with that going through your head. It doesn't matter if you are a guess hitter. (a term I dispute) or a react hitter, you have to have a very concise plan for each at bat.

 

 

 

 

[btdart20]

The leg kick is a timing mechanism as part of the load.  I don't mind it as a tool.  But some tools don't work for every hitter.  Balancing (holding/stalling) is part of the process.  No power happens (in any swing) until the front heel strikes allowing the hits to rotate.  The key is getting to that point "on time".  Being on time with a good swing matters more than how you get there.

Aaron Judge has a high leg kick.  Ohtani doesn't.  

The change seems to have put him in a better head space.  Confidence matters.

Analytics is about having measurable inputs (things the batter can control) to strive for with the end goal of seeing on field results.  Advanced scouting allows you to play the odds with your skills (i.e. guess better).  

[Say O!]

6 hours ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

A lot of you guys are students of hitting. Any idea why Holiday struggled so much to hit MLB level hitting? FWIW, I get that MLB pitchers are better and throw nasty stuff. My question is why a guy who was so successful at such a young age, which means to me that he is exceptionally gifted with the bat in his hands, seemed to be completely lost at the plate? Was it the high leg kick? Was it the overwhelming pressure of expectations? To put it simply, why didn't he hit and will he likely be able to figure it out next year? 

Anyone have a nuanced opinion?

Two things I consistently noticed in Jackson’s ABs:

1. MLB pitchers were able to +/- with speed greatly affecting Jackson’s timing (where the leg kick comes into play).  Pitchers would slow down the bat with changeups low and away and then go to high heaters (or vice versa) and Jackson was too early/late on his swing.  

2. Jackson conceded too many strikes early in the count.  MLB pitchers can paint the corners with regularity and Jackson would not offer unless middle/middle, and consequently would get behind in the count.  When Jackson had his one week of success, it seemed that he was “hunting” pitches and would swing earlier in the count.

Both of these issues are same with Cowser too.  I am hoping that the offseason can provide opportunity for Jackson to refine his timing mechanisms and for him to become more of an all fields hitter, lowering his power potential but increasing avg.  (Cowser is tougher on the other hand bc it does not seem that he can recognize spin or offspeed out of the pitchers hands.  Holliday could, but his timing was out of whack).