Grade the first 20 rounds

[Tony-OH]

By the way, many, many people in the industry read this board and have followed these threads. I'm personally embarrassed by some of the people around here who have made their minds up based off what they've read in BA and before the player has taken a step onto a professional diamond.

I have no problem with the guys who say they would have gone in a different direction with a pick or that they liked another guy better, afterall, that's what the board is for. But it's comical to see so many "experts" suggest Jordan has done poorly because his picks don't match up to a publication.

Just like some of your minds were changed when you heard about Hobgood, maybe you should give some time to wait to hear from Jordan and other scouts (I'll be talking with him shortly after he finishes the draft) on the selections before making such definitive statements. Afterall, you just will end up looking foolish like some of you did last year after the Avery, Matusz, and Zagone selections.

Give it time guys. Let the information at least get out as to why they took certain guys and then bash away. Jordan is a big boy who can take the heat, but I think he's earned enough respect to at least hear him out.

[Frobby]

These quotes from a thread last year

I would love to be able to dig up past draft threads on guys like Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez and Britton to see what our posters thought at the time.

[BaltimoreFan]

I would love to be able to dig up past draft threads on guys like Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez and Britton to see what our posters thought at the time.

It's just not plausible for non-professionals to truly track these prospects as there are so many, and following an 18 year old kid in Northern California is just about impossible. My point is that if you haven't been tracking a prospect statistically, much less seen him pitch, then I don't understand how a negative opinion can possibly be formulated.

Reading a three sentence snippet from Baseball America and then forming an opinion is obviously foolish; our professional scouting team deserves the benefit of the doubt as they have taken a much harder look at these kids than any major publication.

I agree with Tony in that it's perfectly fine to want one player in particular, but don't slam Jordan if he takes another guy because, in all likelihood, you don't know the first thing about him.

[csgordos]

I don't have enough intellegence to grade a draft on players I don't know, nor do 99% of us. I would have picked the incomplete option to be judged in the years to come. Just my thoughts.

[BaltimoreFan]

Instead, Beckham started at AA, tore through the minors, and is, I believe, the first one from his class to make the majors.

Didn't Schlereth in Arizona beat him out?

[allstar1579]

Well, I'll do my best to find some but there are plenty of yucks to be had just by going back about 15-16 pages in this forum, back to last year's draft.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64705

BTW, just to poke a little fun at our draft experts. I read a little blurb that two agreed on that said they thought Gordon Beckham was 3-4 years from being ready for the majors because his game didn't translate well. Instead, Beckham started at AA, tore through the minors, and is, I believe, the first one from his class to make the majors. Hey! That's why they call it an inexact science.

Just because someone is called up doesn't mean they are ready. He's what 2-14? I wouldn't say he's tearing it up or anything.

[Lucky Jim]

I'll say C first day and C- for the second.Givens is obviously a great talent, but we need that shortstop of the future sometime before 2015. And I still don't like Hobgood's weight. I love the third pick but not the first two.

The second day there are just too many reaches. Too many guys with injury histories, too many HS or junior college types, not many college guys with track records.Very little hitting. Very little.

I also sense the dreaded word "signability" here. That equals "cheap" which equals "Angelos sitting on his wallet again". Under the curcumstances, maybe Jordan did as well as he could.

Hope I'm wrong here

No offense, but I think this a complete inversion of what's going on. They're not reaching - they're drafting a ton of guys they'll go overslot to, and they're using injuries as a means of plucking big talent in lower rounds.

I think the jury is out on the draft, to be sure - there's a certain gambling thing going on - but it's not necessarily a cheap draft.

[Stotle]

Didn't Schlereth in Arizona beat him out?

And Perry in Detroit. And Gillispie actually was up last year -- he was the first position player from the draft class to make his ML debut.

[Stotle]

No offense, but I think this a complete inversion of what's going on. They're not reaching - they're drafting a ton of guys they'll go overslot to, and they're using injuries as a means of plucking big talent in lower rounds.

I think the jury is out on the draft, to be sure - there's a certain gambling thing going on - but it's not necessarily a cheap draft.

I think this is probably right -- that's why I'm curious to see what everyone signs for.

[Stotle]

Well, I'll do my best to find some but there are plenty of yucks to be had just by going back about 15-16 pages in this forum, back to last year's draft.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64705

BTW, just to poke a little fun at our draft experts. I read a little blurb that two agreed on that said they thought Gordon Beckham was 3-4 years from being ready for the majors because his game didn't translate well. Instead, Beckham started at AA, tore through the minors, and is, I believe, the first one from his class to make the majors. Hey! That's why they call it an inexact science.

I thought Beckham could have trouble in the upper levels -- not sure how long I said I thought it would take him to break in.

His bat speed has helped to make up for his arm bar, and I'll be curious to see how it plays at the ML-level. I still don't like him as a ML SS, but if he hits he should be fine at 3B. I still don't think he would have been a good selection at 1:4, given the other players on the board and the likelihood of him hitting his ceiling (on my own assessment, not a pro evaluator's assessment).

If by chance I was one of the posters you were referring to, I'll go on record again and say I'm not an expert. I just enjoy amateur baseball as a hobby.

[Stotle]

I think you are great at what you do and you have a lot more knowledge than just about anyone else on here. It just shows that even with a lot of knowledge and information you can be a little off sometimes. Jordan is wrong too sometimes. You at least have the good sense to temper your criticisms and disagreements. Others, with a lot less knowledge, don't seem to have that filter.

Thanks -- I'm making a note to watch Beckham on MLB.TV to see how he's looking. If he looks good, I'll PM you full apology. Can't bring myself to do that until I see with my own eyes.

[allstar1579]

I think you are great at what you do and you have a lot more knowledge than just about anyone else on here. It just shows that even with a lot of knowledge and information you can be a little off sometimes. Jordan is wrong too sometimes. You at least have the good sense to temper your criticisms and disagreements. Others, with a lot less knowledge, don't seem to have that filter.

Yep. I was pretty dead-set against Matusz last year because I was worried about his mechanics and if he could get away from the dependency on his secondary stuff, but the O's went hard to work to break that and he's has done great. Not that my first two choices would have been bad (Smoak and Beckham) but you really never know.

That's why I'm hoping that Hobgood will be great and maybe I was off a bit on Matzek and Wheeler.

[allstar1579]

Hey, I'm not tyring to start anything. lol

Let's just say that Beckham rose through the minors quickly.

No it's ok, didn't mean for it to sound snippy. I just think they rushed him a bit out of trying to make a point to Fields. He would have been well suited to have a ton of success this year in the minors and get 3B to himself next year.

[crawdad]

I think it is an important consideration to recognize that disliking or liking a player is disliking or liking a range of possibility. Sometimes a 2:1 bet will win and sometimes it will lose. I think often what happens when going back over previous choices, it can make one a little Puritanistic and 20/20 in terms of criticism. Some of us amateurs are making comments based on our knowledge base and trying to sort through the information with a rational approach. Others have shown a propensity to cry foul when confronted with an alternative perspective. We see this in the draft, we see this in free agency.

I guess what I find sometimes amusing, sometimes tiring is the fanaticism we all show. With free agency, we typically have a decent track record to make decisions upon. As far as I can tell, Jordan did not punt. He drafted people he thought were valuable. As we go further down the chain, there are some guys hidden away at JuCos, small 4 years, and high schools that were not entirely on the national radar . . . and I never thought to look at them. It will take time to determine the immediate projective worth of this draft. Nick and I (primarily Nick) will take a stab over the next few weeks acquiring video and breaking things down. I'm sure others here will do the same.

From that perspective, anyone with conviction about this draft one way or the other might want to reevaluate their position.