Fire Juan Samuel?

[Hans Moleman]

Saying that some of his players have no business being in the big leagues? How do you think that's going to go over in the clubhouse? Players probably don't appreciate being called non-major-league-caliber by one of their own coaches.

MacPhail might not appreciate that either-- he's the one who brought in many of these players.

If the shoe fits............

Samuel's a 3-time Allstar, thats more than anyone on the current O's roster.

[Mike B]

I pretty much disagree with everything JTrea says (since the Tex ordeal) but this one I think is a fair question.

I am guessing an environment where one of your "bosses" publicly calls you bush league isn't lovely either.[/QUOTE]

No question about it. I think Samuel/s frustration got the best of him, but certain posters have been looking for this type of reaction for 120 games and when they get it, they find it unacceptable. I guess, I have grown tired of the constant fire everybody threads. I suspect the dye is cast in regards to this staff and Samuel is feeling the heat and reacted.

[Mike B]

I don't think it's too much to ask of a third base coach to have a little more responsibility than waving runners home. How about getting someone like Rickey Henderson who can teach AJ, Nick and Felix the nuances of stealing a base?

Fire the man.

Ricky says Ricky does not do coaching. And BTW no coach on any base is going to be able to get signs to a runner heacding for second, as to when to head for third. That is youth baseball stuff. These are major leaguers.

I do not advocate firing the man now but it will be a minor miracle if this staff comes back next year.

[RShack]

Ricky says Ricky does not do coaching.

It's "Rickey", with an "e".

The "e" is what makes him a one-name person... like Lucy or Cher or Madonna.

Without the "e", Ricky could be anybody...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAV3bOJaQuY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAV3bOJaQuY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Mike B]

It's "Rickey", with an "e".

The "e" is what makes him a one-name person... like Lucy or Cher or Madonna.

Without the "e", Ricky could be anybody...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAV3bOJaQuY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAV3bOJaQuY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/quote

Ok, but RickEy does not strike me as a teacher.

[waroriole]

Saying that some of his players have no business being in the big leagues? How do you think that's going to go over in the clubhouse? Players probably don't appreciate being called non-major-league-caliber by one of their own coaches.

MacPhail might not appreciate that either-- he's the one who brought in many of these players.

I'm not a fan of Samuel's or his comments, but isn't it possible that his comments could be a motivating tool. Maybe he sees a lack of hustle out of some fringe guys and this is his way of saying they're on thin ice.

[TiredofLosing20]

No question about it. I think Samuel/s frustration got the best of him, but certain posters have been looking for this type of reaction for 120 games and when they get it, they find it unacceptable. I guess, I have grown tired of the constant fire everybody threads. I suspect the dye is cast in regards to this staff and Samuel is feeling the heat and reacted.

Nah I understand.. Its the boy who cried wolf.. but in this instance he has a point.

[RShack]

Ok, but RickEy does not strike me as a teacher.

Oh, I agree with you. It would be all about Rickey. It would be a disaster.

[TiredofLosing20]

I'm not a fan of Samuel's or his comments, but isn't it possible that his comments could be a motivating tool. Maybe he sees a lack of hustle out of some fringe guys and this is his way of saying they're on thin ice.

Well, if public embarrassment of professional athletes is a motivating tool he uses than I think even less of him.

There are ways of telling them they are on thin ice without going public. Nothing good comes from blasting teammates or players in the media.

[blid]

I would fire Juan Samuel now.

The guy's been doing a poor job at third all season, I don't think changing a base coach midseason would be any more of a distraction than comments like his are. That's part one of the reason.

Secondly, though, Pie is finally getting on the field and one thing I've been hoping to see during the end of this season is some progress in his base running. He's got the speed to improve out there, but now the base running coach has apparently given up on him already and is saying he doesn't belong in the bigs. That doesn't really sound like a situation for a young guy to learn in, does it? The O`s still have 35 games left this year, let's bring in someone who wants to work with Pie, not someone who'd rather throw him under the bus.

[waroriole]

Well, if public embarrassment of professional athletes is a motivating tool he uses than I think even less of him.

There are ways of telling them they are on thin ice without going public. Nothing good comes from blasting teammates or players in the media.

Maybe he's already tried that and it didn't work.

Is it a good tool when someone like Jim Leyland uses it? Everyone is not going to have the same managing or coaching style. If this is how he can get through to players then so be it.

[LookitsPuck]

Maybe he's already tried that and it didn't work.

Is it a good tool when someone like Jim Leyland uses it? Everyone is not going to have the same managing or coaching style. If this is how he can get through to players then so be it.

Samuel is an awful 3rd base coach, who cares if he gets fired? At this point I'd rather have Trebelhorn. At least he has a personality conducive to learning. Samuel is a big bag of fail, and a big D to boot.

[waroriole]

Samuel is an awful 3rd base coach, who cares if he gets fired? At this point I'd rather have Trebelhorn. At least he has a personality conducive to learning. Samuel is a big bag of fail, and a big D to boot.

I'm not saying I want him as 3B coach, I'm saying that some people are using this as an excuse to push their agenda that he should be fired now. He's not gonna be, but he's probably not going to be back next year either. The comments on their own are not so bad, and if they had come from someone other than an OH whipping boy they would either be supported or largely ignored. If they were directed at an OH whipping boy, like Mora or Wiggy, then they would be supported.

[TiredofLosing20]

Maybe he's already tried that and it didn't work.

Is it a good tool when someone like Jim Leyland uses it? Everyone is not going to have the same managing or coaching style. If this is how he can get through to players then so be it.

There is a difference between criticizing a team and criticizing specific players. I haven't been an avid follower of Leyland so I wouldn't know if he has pointed out specific players in the past and whether or not that has been a valuable teaching tool. From what I can tell most pro athletes do not respond favorably and for a young guy I would say it is even less beneficial IMO.

To me there is a difference between saying we made too many mistakes or we didn't have good effort as a team and saying player X is just being player X or some of these guys are not real major leaguers.

I also have an issue with Samuel preaching accountibility then in the next breath blame everyone else. You win and lose as a team period.

[waroriole]

There is a difference between criticizing a team and criticizing specific players. I haven't been an avid follower of Leyland so I wouldn't know if he has pointed out specific players in the past and whether or not that has been a valuable teaching tool. From what I can tell most pro athletes do not respond favorably and for a young guy I would say it is even less beneficial IMO.

To me there is a difference between saying we made too many mistakes or we didn't have good effort as a team and saying player X is just being player X or some of these guys are not real major leaguers.

I also have an issue with Samuel preaching accountibility then in the next breath blame everyone else. You win and lose as a team period.

Again, I'm not a supporter of Samuel and I don't feel like rehashing the same arguments that have already been laid out in this thread. However, if he doesn't have the option of calling out some people when everything else has failed then his hands are pretty much tied. I don't think any of us have enough information to make strong statements like the one's being made here.