Fire Juan Samuel?

[TiredofLosing20]

I'm not saying I want him as 3B coach, I'm saying that some people are using this as an excuse to push their agenda that he should be fired now. He's not gonna be, but he's probably not going to be back next year either. The comments on their own are not so bad, and if they had come from someone other than an OH whipping boy they would either be supported or largely ignored. If they were directed at an OH whipping boy, like Mora or Wiggy, then they would be supported.

I haven't said one bad thing about Samuel this season, and I don't have an agenda. But this stuff is ridiculous and classless. I was just as critical of Mora for doing the same thing to Trembley as most on here were.

The comments are on their own bad. If they aren't so bad then maybe Samuel would like to expand as to what players specifically are not major leaguers. Who the hell is he in the first place a freaking 3rd base coach on a last place team. Maybe he should know his role and shut up.

[TiredofLosing20]

Again, I'm not a supporter of Samuel and I don't feel like rehashing the same arguments that have already been laid out in this thread. However, if he doesn't have the option of calling out some people when everything else has failed then his hands are pretty much tied. I don't think any of us have enough information to make strong statements like the one's being made here.

What information? He chose to call players out publically and he chose to preach accountability and then blame others.

To me it smacks of unprofessionalism.

[olehippi]

After wading through all the BS in this thread, it's pretty obvious that some posters may have read a baseball book or two, or watched the movie Major League a few times.......but they've obviously never played baseball beyond some rudimentary level where the coaches held their hands, and they sure as hell were never in the military and had a DI in their face for screwing up. Some of you sound like sheltered little children....and in turn are crying (boo hoo) expecting ML coaches and managers to coddle the delicate feelings of guys making millions of dollars to play a game. Give me a frickin' break!!!

IMO, Samuel is 100% correct about some of the players on this team...they wouldn't be in the ML if it weren't for expansion. This is something I have said in previous posts. And the propensity for making dumb mistakes...and more importantly, not learning from them.....is one of the reasons why many otherwise good players never make it out of the minor leagues.

So, if Samuel's remarks ruffle someone's feathers, so what? If it makes someone bear down and try to be a better player....great!! If it makes someone mad and they go off to sulk and complain.....good! It proves they don't belong here.

If you really want this team to be good...to be a championship caliber team at some point in the near future....you have to weed out the ones who aren't good enough, or tough enough, to reach that level.

[waroriole]

What information? He chose to call players out publically and he chose to preach accountability and then blame others.

To me it smacks of unprofessionalism.

The information that we don't have is how much he has already talked to guys about baserunning blunders. I'm sure he has b/c they've been going on all year. It's possible, and even likely, that he has reached a boiling point and decided that this is the only way they're going to learn, if they do at all.

You may think it's unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not respond to the coaching you've been given. He's got a job to do and if this is the only way he can do it, then that is what he's going to have to do. If you think the players are too soft to handle a little calling out then I don't know what to tell you. Earl Weaver constantly ridiculed some players, and they would probably tell you they were better players for it.

I'll give you the fact that he didn't really accept any responsibility for the mistakes, but there is not much he can do in those situations. If you disagree that's fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[TiredofLosing20]

After wading through all the BS in this thread, it's pretty obvious that some posters may have read a baseball book or two, or watched the movie Major League a few times.......but they've obviously never played baseball beyond some rudimentary level where the coaches held their hands, and they sure as hell were never in the military and had a DI in their face for screwing up. Some of you sound like sheltered little children....and in turn are crying (boo hoo) expecting ML coaches and managers to coddle the delicate feelings of guys making millions of dollars to play a game. Give me a frickin' break!!!

IMO, Samuel is 100% correct about some of the players on this team...they wouldn't be in the ML if it weren't for expansion. This is something I have said in previous posts. And the propensity for making dumb mistakes...and more importantly, not learning from them.....is one of the reasons why many otherwise good players never make it out of the minor leagues.

So, if Samuel's remarks ruffle someone's feathers, so what? If it makes someone bear down and try to be a better player....great!! If it makes someone mad and they go off to sulk and complain.....good! It proves they don't belong here.

If you really want this team to be good...to be a championship caliber team at some point in the near future....you have to weed out the ones who aren't good enough, or tough enough, to reach that level.

Growing up the son of a Marine drill instructor I can tell you that the military argument is simply not valid here, unless you plan to invade Iran with our 40 man roster. Two totally different scenarios.

The issue isn't whether or not he is right in his assertion. The issue isn't whether they should be coddled. If they make a mistake they should be criticized and tarred and feathered and anything else you believe should happen but there is a time and a place for it. The Baltimore Sun isn't the right place. Actually this goes against Trembley's original philosophy of handling things "in house". Guess that only goes for players not named after dessert. Like I said in an earlier post, the double standard here is painfully obvious (see Mora;disrespected).

Try standing out in the middle of your office or whatever it is you do and criticizing one of your subordinates mistakes with a bullhorn. See how that works out for you.

[zff4]

We have a lousy record. We're lousy on the basepaths. We've been a lousy club for a long time. Firing Juan Samuel for being lousy won't matter much but the lousy 3B coach doesn't throw lousy guys under the bus, that's the lousy manager's job. But firing someone for a lousy slip of the tongue on a day when one lousy guy in particular looked lousier than the rest is a lousy way to run a lousy club.

[blid]

But firing someone for a lousy slip of the tongue on a day when one lousy guy in particular looked lousier than the rest is a lousy way to run a lousy club.

Is that not the proper way to run a lousy club?

[CrimsonTribe]

Ladies and Gentlemen, introducing Juan "I'm accountable, but really I'm not" Samuel.

"It has never bothered me to take criticism," said Samuel, who stole 396 bases and was a three-time All-Star during his 16-year career in the big leagues. "I'm man enough to do it. If they don't want to make the players accountable, then I'm going to be accountable. But to me, players need to be accountable. If you make a mistake, you need to take responsibility for your mistake. You have to do it. That's why you see teams that are up here [in the standings] and teams that are down here, because they don't want to be accountable. It's always somebody else's [fault], and that's a problem."

Talking about being accountable does not make you accountable, especially when you say that someone else should be held accountable.

[El Gordo]

After wading through all the BS in this thread, it's pretty obvious that some posters may have read a baseball book or two, or watched the movie Major League a few times.......but they've obviously never played baseball beyond some rudimentary level where the coaches held their hands, and they sure as hell were never in the military and had a DI in their face for screwing up. Some of you sound like sheltered little children....and in turn are crying (boo hoo) expecting ML coaches and managers to coddle the delicate feelings of guys making millions of dollars to play a game. Give me a frickin' break!!!

IMO, Samuel is 100% correct about some of the players on this team...they wouldn't be in the ML if it weren't for expansion. This is something I have said in previous posts. And the propensity for making dumb mistakes...and more importantly, not learning from them.....is one of the reasons why many otherwise good players never make it out of the minor leagues.

So, if Samuel's remarks ruffle someone's feathers, so what? If it makes someone bear down and try to be a better player....great!! If it makes someone mad and they go off to sulk and complain.....good! It proves they don't belong here.

If you really want this team to be good...to be a championship caliber team at some point in the near future....you have to weed out the ones who aren't good enough, or tough enough, to reach that level.

Care to name those players? What level of baseball proficiency did you reach to qualify you to judge others experience? Samuel is dead wrong for calling out players in the press. It's not his job description. He has just shot himself in the foot with many of the players. Whether you think they belong here or not, AM does or they wouldn't be on the team. I can't see how Samuel can have any effectiveness from now on. if he ever did. They can bring someone up from the organization do do his job, probably better, and the players would respond positively IMO.

[DrungoHazewood]

IMO, Samuel is 100% correct about some of the players on this team...they wouldn't be in the ML if it weren't for expansion. This is something I have said in previous posts. And the propensity for making dumb mistakes...and more importantly, not learning from them.....is one of the reasons why many otherwise good players never make it out of the minor leagues.

That would be 100% correct if it wasn't 100% wrong. Well, at least mostly wrong.

The talent pool in baseball has grown at a much faster rate than the number of teams. It's harder to get to the majors with 30 teams today than it was with 26 when Samuel was young. Just the US population has increased by 28% since 1985, while the number of MLB teams has only gone up 15%. And that doesn't account for the much greater number of foreign players in the league.

So what Samuel said was literally true in once sense, but expansion is all that's keeping a mediocre 2009 major leaguer from being as good an an average one in 1985.

[Why Not?]

Samuel's job is 50% coaching and 50% speaking Spanish. It's clear he's going to be made a scapegoat....mostly because it's the easiest thing for us fans to do.

I'm not really sure what else the coaches can do besides tell the players not to make stupid decisions. I assume he and the rest of the staff have coached 'em up on what to do and what not to do. Once they are standing out there on the basepaths, it's up to the player.

Further, it's crazy to blame Samuel but not Shelby or Jauss or Trembley.

[olehippi]

That would be 100% correct if it wasn't 100% wrong. Well, at least mostly wrong.

The talent pool in baseball has grown at a much faster rate than the number of teams. It's harder to get to the majors with 30 teams today than it was with 26 when Samuel was young. Just the US population has increased by 28% since 1985, while the number of MLB teams has only gone up 15%. And that doesn't account for the much greater number of foreign players in the league.

So what Samuel said was literally true in once sense, but expansion is all that's keeping a mediocre 2009 major leaguer from being as good an an average one in 1985.

.

There are also a lot of different socio-economic factors in play now that weren't there when Samuel played, and have altered the pool of truly talented baseball players.

You also have to take into account that many American kids who are "athletically gifted" now choose other sports....or have been led away from athletics and into a sedentary life dominated by video games, television, drugs, etc.

Much of the talent seems to be coming from the foreign sources you mention and many are truly talented. But they come from a different culture and they do not have the same mindset as American players. They play the game differently, and they see and do a lot of things on the field in a completely different way. As a result, base running instincts that appear to be natural for Reimold, may be completely lacking in Pie. What we see as odd, or even wrong, may be perfectly natural for them, and it seems that no amount of coaching may completely change that.

[gamzover]

I think Juan needs to look in the mirror. Sure some of the players have made mistakes, but i don't know how many times i have seen him wave somebody home to have them thrown at the plate or give somebody the stop sign when they could have scored and then the next batter ends the inning.Juan is not all that.

[carolinaoriole]

After his comments today, what do you think? Is that the last straw?

Should the Orioles retain him for the rest of the season, or is it better for them to make a clean break now and avoid the possible bad vibes in the clubhouse?

There you go again

Why are you constantly advocating for people to be fired?

[BaltimoreTerp]

There you go again

Why are you constantly advocating for people to be fired?

The only real problem is that he spends so much time crying wolf that these times where he is right people question his motives.