Time for Bergesen to go back down (update: Bergesen sent down)

[Tony-OH]

Arrieta's still walking too many guys though. Nine in 18 innings at triple A translates to way too many in the majors. We're back in "looking to the future" mode now though so I guess it's time to see what he can do.

The walks are a bit of concern, no doubt, but he's getting some K's the last two starts and getting ground ball outs. At this point, I still think he's the best option.

Besides, if he doesn't work out in the rotation, maybe this will help the Orioles convert him to closer where I feel he would be dominant.

[Singleton]

Agreed on both counts. Berken looked solid last night but I sort of had the feeling that the batters would have caught up to him if he had pitched any longer than he did. I like him in the long relief role. As to Arrieta, he now has more starts in AAA than any of the guys who got called up last year:

Bergesen - 2

Berken - 5

Hernandez - 11

Tillman - 18 (as of his call-up last year)

Matusz - 0

I'm not sure the number of starts at AAA means much. Arrieta isn't allowing runs but he's walking too many and that is a very strong predictor of success or lack thereof at the MLB level. Promoting him seems like a pretty bad idea for a 2-11 team. Promote Simon or someone who is more a placeholder and wait for Arrieta to show he can control the walks.

[Hooded Viper]

The clincher for me in terms of him needing to go down is what I saw when the camera followed him into the dugout. He literally sprinted off the diamond and looked like he was really trying to beat the cameras so they wouldn't catch him breaking down. I was really blown away by that. As has been stated, he isn't there in his mechanics and certainly not in his confidence. He can work on both in Norfolk. I say keep Berkin in the role he is excelling in and bring up Jake.

[DuffMan]

Cowerd is on the mark here no doubt. It was extremely painful to watch him meltdown. I think that's a big part of why he's gone so fast. The guy looked like a rattled A-ball pitcher last night and that's something he's going to have to overcome in a big way before he comes back up. He's got to get his emotions in check out there.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2010/04/the_agony_of_defeat_1.html

I hate to even ask this question, but do you think Trembley left him out there too long last night? I didn't see any of the game, but if he was getting smacked around and looked rattled seems like it would have been better to pull him sooner?

[blid]

The remarkable thing with Bergesen's confidence problems is that when he got brought up, he looked like the most put-together rookie in years. Even people that said he doesn't have the "stuff" agreed that he worked fast, wasn't afraid to attack hitters, and was a refreshing change from the Hayden Penns of earlier years. Now it seems like he's keeping it together until he runs into some adversity, and then falling apart. I had high hopes for the guy that he could continue to outperform expectations. One by one, the guys I've really wanted to watch this season (Pie, Bergesen) are falling off the map. They were guys whose futures I could keep excited about even if the team was struggling. At least we've still got Matusz.

[Singleton]

I hate to even ask this question, but do you think Trembley left him out there too long last night? I didn't see any of the game, but if he was getting smacked around and looked rattled seems like it would have been better to pull him sooner?

While he wasn't locating early, he hadn't given up a run yet. He got the 1st out of the inning and things fell apart quickly. He does work fast. I don't think you could pull him out much more quickly considering you have to give your guy time to warm up and wouldn't have even started to do that until you were well into the mess.

[VAB2110]

Forgive me if it's been brought up earlier in this thread but is it possible Bergesen is not finishing his delivery properly and, if so, could that be related to fear of getting hit again.

[Mackus]

I hate to even ask this question, but do you think Trembley left him out there too long last night? I didn't see any of the game, but if he was getting smacked around and looked rattled seems like it would have been better to pull him sooner?

He pitched ok through the first two and was actually pitching even better in the third. He got unlucky at first with where the groundballs were going, the double by whoever hit the double (Wilson?) wasn't hit particularly hard, just got past Wiggy at 3B and then Montanez made a lame throw to second, should have had him easily, that was the first "extra out". He pitched around Ichiro then lost his command a bit, walking the next guy. He then got 2-3 ground balls in a row, two for singles that just weren't at anybody, then one at Wigginton which should've been a DP but he booted. Griffey then hit another groundball, again no particularly hard, through the hole between 1st and 2nd.

After that, he got incredibly frustrated and started leaving balls up. The double and the homerun were both simply terrible pitches that we absolutely crushed.

I actually thought up until halfway through the third that he was looking better and would be getting back to where he needs to be, the ball was sinking decently, just not being hit at anybody as sometimes happens for sinkerballers. But after about 4 straight not-attem gorunders with a booted double play ball thrown in there, he melted down. Agree with the others who say he looked like he was about to either cry or murder everyone in the stadium out there. Sending him down is the right thing at this point, but hopefully he can be back up soon.

[Lucky Jim]

He pitched ok through the first two and was actually pitching even better in the third. He got unlucky at first with where the groundballs were going, the double by whoever hit the double (Wilson?) wasn't hit particularly hard, just got past Wiggy at 3B and then Montanez made a lame throw to second, should have had him easily, that was the first "extra out". He pitched around Ichiro then lost his command a bit, walking the next guy. He then got 2-3 ground balls in a row, two for singles that just weren't at anybody, then one at Wigginton which should've been a DP but he booted. Griffey then hit another groundball, again no particularly hard, through the hole between 1st and 2nd.

After that, he got incredibly frustrated and started leaving balls up. The double and the homerun were both simply terrible pitches that we absolutely crushed.

I actually thought up until halfway through the third that he was looking better and would be getting back to where he needs to be, the ball was sinking decently, just not being hit at anybody as sometimes happens for sinkerballers. But after about 4 straight not-attem gorunders with a booted double play ball thrown in there, he melted down. Agree with the others who say he looked like he was about to either cry or murder everyone in the stadium out there. Sending him down is the right thing at this point, but hopefully he can be back up soon.

I thought his movement was okay. But I thought he looked terrible. He was hurrying so badly through his wind-up and then rushing back to the mound to throw again. It looked like a manic compulsion more than an orderly process. Not good.

[Tony-OH]

I hate to even ask this question, but do you think Trembley left him out there too long last night? I didn't see any of the game, but if he was getting smacked around and looked rattled seems like it would have been better to pull him sooner?

No, it was time after the homer. He was not looking good at all, but he was an out away from getting out of the inning, but the Kotchman homer was the nail in the coffin.

[Frobby]

I'm not sure the number of starts at AAA means much. Arrieta isn't allowing runs but he's walking too many and that is a very strong predictor of success or lack thereof at the MLB level. Promoting him seems like a pretty bad idea for a 2-11 team. Promote Simon or someone who is more a placeholder and wait for Arrieta to show he can control the walks.

Normally I'd be very concerned with the walks, but his BAA is so low that I think it's worth the risk. Bottom line, if he's not performing after a few starts he always can be sent back down.

By the way, neither Arrieta nor Simon is on the 40-man roster.

[Tony-OH]

I thought his movement was okay. But I thought he looked terrible. He was hurrying so badly through his wind-up and then rushing back to the mound to throw again. It looked like a manic compulsion more than an orderly process. Not good.

This unfortunately is pretty accurate. I honestly don't know if there is something else going on or not, but he did not look right out there and for the Orioles to send him out before half the guys got out of the showers tells me they know there's something wrong here and it might not be just his inconsistent arm slot.

[Sports Guy]

For you guys worried about Arrieta's walks...get over it!

Not trying to be harsh or anything but this idea of a prospect needing to be perfect before they come up is so annoying. We know what his issues are..The bottom line is can he adjust, improve and show that he is a ML starter.

We need to start finding these things out because if he's not, then move him to the closers role and then we need to find another starter.

You can't keep sitting back and waiting for every player to be perfect before you bring them up...You have to see what they can do at this level and then go from there.

Arrieta is not some 21 y/o single A pitcher.

[Frobby]

For you guys worried about Arrieta's walks...get over it!

Not trying to be harsh or anything but this idea of a prospect needing to be perfect before they come up is so annoying. We know what his issues are..The bottom line is can he adjust, improve and show that he is a ML starter.

We need to start finding these things out because if he's not, then move him to the closers role and then we need to find another starter.

You can't keep sitting back and waiting for every player to be perfect before you bring them up...You have to see what they can do at this level and then go from there.

Arrieta is not some 21 y/o single A pitcher.

I think it is legit to raise this issue, even though I'm in favor of bringing up Arrieta. We've seen a lot of pitchers who had good ERA's, good K's but high walk rates come up to Baltimore and flounder, like Radhames Liz previously and Hernandez last year. I just don't see a better alternative to Arrieta at present.

[Singleton]

For you guys worried about Arrieta's walks...get over it!

Not trying to be harsh or anything but this idea of a prospect needing to be perfect before they come up is so annoying. We know what his issues are..The bottom line is can he adjust, improve and show that he is a ML starter.

We need to start finding these things out because if he's not, then move him to the closers role and then we need to find another starter.

You can't keep sitting back and waiting for every player to be perfect before you bring them up...You have to see what they can do at this level and then go from there.

Arrieta is not some 21 y/o single A pitcher.

Aren't you the guy who started a whole long thread yesterday (fixing the Orioles part 2 or something) with one of the major premises criticizing the development of young players and suggesting that we don't have a philosophy. Walks matter.

Look, I'm not saying Arrietta has to be perfect or that he needs to stay down until he's 35. No one said that. I am saying that 9 walks in 18 innings is not good.

There are very few big league pitchers that can walk a batter every 2 innings and be successful.

Yes, its only 3 starts. Lets give him a few more to see if he can perform better.

There's 150 games left to see what he can do at the MLB level this season. I don't see why we can't give him more time to work on his control in a much less stressful environment. That's part of why you have a minor league system.