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Time for Bergesen to go back down (update: Bergesen sent down)

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
in Orioles Talk

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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Eh, I'm fine with Bergie getting sent down to work on things. The fact remains that he has always been, and will always be, a pitcher with a slim margin for error. He has the option time, so go ahead and utilize AAA. But to the extent he goes through rough spells in the future, he is going to have to be able to work through it at the ML level, be it in the rotation or in the pen.

As an aside, this sort of issue is what many of us were talking about last year when we were pointing out that Bergesen was likely to regress some. It's just very difficult for any pitcher to be "on" all the time, and unfortunately for Bergesen the raw stuff requires that he not get too out of whack or he'll get hit hard.

This is spot-on, I think.

Really? People expected him to lose control emotionally?
I'm with you on this one. He seems to have gone from rattle-proof to easily-rattled. That's an internal thing, not a throwing thing.

ps: I believe he can fix it.

I'm not sure I get where this is coming from. The point he's making is the margin-of-error point. Whether he's melting down, too, is sort-of irrelevant to it, no? It sucks, but one would think that not getting shelled, and commanding his pitches, and having movement, would all help him not melt down.

I think people are making too big a deal out of the "meltdown" and not enough out of his crappy mechanics, his AWOL command, and his diminished movement.

This is Stotle's point: when your stuff is marginal, you can excel if you're "always on" but you will struggle (sometimes mightily) with the even slightest slippage. It's been a point a lot of us have made for a while, I think.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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I'm with you on this one. He seems to have gone from rattle-proof to easily-rattled. That's an internal thing, not a throwing thing.

ps: I believe he can fix it.

So your analysis leads you to conclusion that Bergesen experienced a world of success last year, has been a steady producer on the mound, but for an unknown reason has lost his confidence and ability to focus, which in turn has prevented him from succeeding in 2010.

It's not that simply that he's being too imprecise with his plus 2-seam (movement) and three other marginal pitches?

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I didn't jump on anybody. I said it sounded like an over-reaction. And, yes, I was basing that on what more-than-a-few people had said throughout the game in the game thread.

What in the world are you rambling about? Over-reactions around here are an everyday occurrence. Please show me one time when I have criticized somebody for saying there was a message-board over-reaction. Face it, you can't do it.

Here's the funny part: Had I not gone by what people were saying in the game thread, then somebody would have said that I was "dissing the whole board" by not listening to what multiple people were saying in the game thread.

Now, having said that, it certainly appears that I was wrong. Note what I said: I was wrong, wrong, wrong. See how easy it is to say that? You should try it sometime...

LOL..now you are going to play stupid?

You always jump on people on here or national people and complain about them coming to conclusions without enough evidence, which is exactly what you did.

Again, complete double standard...Too bad your head is too far in the sand to see it.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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So your analysis leads you to conclusion that Bergesen experienced a world of success last year, has been a steady producer on the mound, but for an unknown reason has lost his confidence and ability to focus, which in turn has prevented him from succeeding in 2010.

It's not that simply that he's being too imprecise with his plus 2-seam (movement) and three other marginal pitches?

I didn't say it was that simple. I swear, why does everybody insist on turning things into phony issues of black-and-white?

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Does this mean you will actually start talking baseball and bringing some ideas to the board?

To me, being more like Trea means being more like Rain Man... just replace "K-Mart sucks" with "AM sucks", and you pretty much have it...

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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"Rather than him work sporadically or work out of the bullpen, he is better served to go to Triple-A, get a start under his belt and spend some time working on his mechanics where he can get his sinker back to where it was last year," MacPhail said.

As for Bergesen making that May 1 start, MacPhail said, "We'll see how he does. Clearly, if he can make some of the adjustments we’re asking him to make, he’s as viable of a candidate as anybody else."

Though Bergesen clearly looks uncomfortable on the mound and is coming off both shin and shoulder injuries, MacPhail said that the pitcher's struggles aren't injury related.

"The velocity is there," he said. "His stuff is just flast. He’s not getting the downward movement that he had a year ago. It’s an opportunity for him to go work on his mechanics and to get himself back here and pitch like he pitched for us a year ago."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2010/04/gonzalez_getting_second_opinio.html

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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I didn't say it was that simple. I swear, why does everybody insist on turning things into phony issues of black-and-white?

Well, Wicked's response to Stotle's "stuff" analysis was to posit psychological/mental issues, which you then stated you agreed with and thought he'd fix.

That appears "simple" even if it wasn't intended that way.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Well, Wicked's response to Stotle's "stuff" analysis was to posit psychological/mental issues, which you then stated you agreed with and thought he'd fix.

That appears "simple" even if it wasn't intended that way.

I believe that going from rattle-proof to easily-rattled is a big part of what's happening. Yesterday, he went from getting 3 GB-outs in a row to having no composure, and it happened very rapidly. The idea that all of that is just about margin of error on his pitches is an idea I don't buy. You can buy it if you want, that's fine with me, but I don't...

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I believe that going from rattle-proof to easily-rattled is a big part of what's happening. Yesterday, he went from getting 3 GB-outs in a row to having no composure, and it happened very rapidly. The idea that all of that is just about margin of error on his pitches is an idea I don't buy. You can buy it if you want, that's fine with me, but I don't...

So you don't buy the idea that a ground ball pitcher with mediocre stuff, that gets the ball up and has his pitches end up flat, doesn't leave him for a small margin of error?

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