Juan Samuel Isn't Considering Dropping Matusz From Rotation

[Old#5fan]

LOL, Tillman has it all figured out.

I didn't see Tillman. By the time I turned the game on Albers was in as I got home late from work. In reading another thread, apparently Tillman had all kinds of command issues but I am more interested in what the velocity was on his fastball? Anybody know? I think Tillman is going to have command issues similar to Arietta, but his velocity of his fastball is the key to whether he is going to develop or not. Not seeing him in action, I wonder if he was over-throwing (trying to throw hard) or was it the command of his curve that was off?

[Sports Guy]

I didn't see Tillman. By the time I turned the game on Albers was in as I got home late from work. In reading another thread, apparently Tillman had all kinds of command issues but I am more interested in what the velocity was on his fastball? Anybody know? I think Tillman is going to have command issues similar to Arietta, but his velocity of his fastball is the key to whether he is going to develop or not. Not seeing him in action, I wonder if he was over-throwing?

Rank these in order of importance:

Command

Velocity

Movement

[Old#5fan]

Rank these in order of importance:

Command

Velocity

Movement

Velocity - to reach the big leagues you have to hit 90 mph at a minimum

Command - if you can achieve the velocity the command is next in importance

Movement this is equal to command in importance, and most important if a knuckleball pitcher.

Did you see Tillman? If so, what was his problem? I wasn't even going to enter this thread because I didn't see him pitch and really don't know what his problem was (mechanics, curve not breaking properly, over-throwing fastball, etc.)

[Sports Guy]

Velocity - to reach the big leagues you have to hit 90 mph at a minimum

Command - if you can achieve the velocity the command is next in importance

Movement this is equal to command in importance, and most important if a knuckleball pitcher.

Did you see Tillman? If so, what was his problem? I wasn't even going to enter this thread because I didn't see him pitch and really don't know what his problem was (mechanics, curve not breaking properly, over-throwing fastball, etc.)

Thanks for proving to me what I already thought...you know nothing about pitching. Jim Palmer would be laughing at you right now.

[waroriole]

Rank these in order of importance:

Command

Velocity

Movement

Command

Movement

Velocity

[scOtt]

Command

Movement

Velocity

I'd debate command and movement, but velocity is definitely last.

[BRobinsonfan]

I am not claiming he is fixed yet, but he looked night and day better and in fact has his best major league outing EVER after going back down. If if worked for him, --- I'm just saying!

So after tonight I guess it's time to send him back down huh?

[BRobinsonfan]

Easy... a donnybrook might break out.

Please stop all of this tomfoolery right now!

[Old#5fan]

I'd debate command and movement, but velocity is definitely last.

I would agree with that once you make it to the big leagues.

However, to get there you have to have velocity first. Just look at how they scout kids with radar guns. I know this first hand. I have a cousin who was a great college pitcher at Clemson. In fact, he was the ACC Player of the year in 74. He is currently a pitching coach in the SF Giants minor leagues. Yet he never got a cup of coffee at the major league level because he couldn't get higher than 87 mph on his fast ball, even though he had a heck of a curve and split finger pitch and outstanding command.

[Old#5fan]

Thanks for proving to me what I already thought...you know nothing about pitching. Jim Palmer would be laughing at you right now.

I know what it takes to reach the big leagues and the first think they look at is the radar gun genius.

[bOhs01]

I would agree with that once you make it to the big leagues.

However, to get there you have to have velocity first. Just look at how they scout kids with radar guns. I know this first hand. I have a cousin who was a great college pitcher at Clemson. In fact, he was the ACC Player of the year in 74. He is currently a pitching coach in the SF Giants minor leagues. Yet he never got a cup of coffee at the major league level because he couldn't get higher than 87 mph on his fast ball, even though he had a heck of a curve and split finger pitch and outstanding command.

So, based on one case in the 1970's the radar gun is the only thing that matters? You can have a mid 90's fastball but if you don't know where it's going you will not be in the big leagues. Command is much more important.

[Old#5fan]

LOL, you're right that the scouts first look at the radar gun but that is step one of about one million steps to get to the majors as a starter. The need to "throw 90 at a minimum" as you so goofily put it doesn't have a damn thing to do with it AFTER the player is signed and putting up decent recents in the minors. You truly can't follow multistep decision trees at all. Even relatively simple ones. They are just lost on you.

That was the original quesiton as in what order of importance is velocity, command, and movement.

The answer changes based on the stage of a pitcher's development, but the first requirement is velocity. Anyone should know this. I pitched through high school and had excellent command, but couldn't hit 80 mph on a radar gun and had zero chance of getting to the minors much less the majors.

Once you get to the big leagues (with your mimimally required 90 mph fastball (unless you are of course a knuckleballer) your command and movement of course become more important. You cannot teach velocity, you can command and to some extent movement.

[Frobby]

That was the original quesiton as in what order of importance is velocity, command, and movement.

The answer changes based on the stage of a pitcher's development, but the first requirement is velocity. Anyone should know this. I pitched through high school and had excellent command, but couldn't hit 80 mph on a radar gun and had zero chance of getting to the minors much less the majors.

Once you get to the big leagues (with your mimimally required 90 mph fastball (unless you are of course a knuckleballer) your command and movement of course become more important. You cannot teach velocity, you can command and to some extent movement.

Obviously, velocity helps get you noticed. However, there have always been successful major league pitchers who don't crack 90 mph. Jamie Moyer's fastball averages 81-82 mph, and has for years. Doug Davis's and Livan Hernandez's average 85 mph. Barry Zito's averages 86. So does Mark Buehrle's, and his fastball didn't crack 90 mph even once in his perfect game last year.

Now back to Matusz. His fastball has averaged 90.1 mph this year. He's certainly capable of hitting 93. I don't think he has to be perfect to succeed. He's had far more good starts than bad ones this year, and I doubt his command has been perfect that many times.

[The Wedge]

I don't know if any manly man should ever post a statement like that, and I am not being a wise acre. If I were you I think I would delate that statement and I will forget I ever saw it!

If, and that's a big IF, I would EVER require your opinion on my manliness, I will provide it for you.

That is how manly I am, quantifiable. Book it, geeze.

[TonySoprano]

If, and that's a big IF, I would EVER require your opinion on my manliness, I will provide it for you.

That is how manly I am, quantifiable. Book it, geeze.

We really shouldn't go there. The large majority of us trust you, but there have been stories....