Mazzone let go

[Sunner]

Why is it we want a manager to be able to bring in his own coaches and when he does we do not want him to be able to bring in his own coaches. I am not glad he is gone, but the manager is being allowed to put together his staff. That is what this board has been crying for, so move on.

[Leitch]

That is what this board has been crying for, so move on.

No, you move on.

[Colt]

He made Erik Bedard into a Cy Young canidate.

Benson's teaching Bedard his change up did more for Bedard than Mazzone.

[RShack]

These 5 quotes cover my reaction. I agree with each one…

I'm fine with whoever as long as Trembley picks him. I want all the coaches to work for Trembley, and not have coaches with different loyalties.

Good call SG....

What we're going to see is that wherever Mazzone goes next they will implement his program system wide and young pitching and old will thrive.

…in my opinion, we'll be adding the name of Mr. Mazzone to the people employed by this organization that were underutilized while they were here … I wish the new guy the best, and I'm pleased Trembley gets his own man, but I find it difficult to believe that Mazzone moving on is a good thing.

They are doing what they think is best for the team and because this is McPhail and Trembley first season doing so I will sit back and trust their instincts. At this point, I commend them for their decisiveness. Hopefully this carries over into what they do with the players. McPhail has so far been a man of his word in letting Trembley rule his domain among other things he has said and done, that's refreshing.

It makes me sad. I like Mazzone.

The time is (still) now, but the place is somewhere else...

[Fairfax Bird]

I'll have to check on this, but I don't think Patterson at any time put up the numbers Pie did at AA at age 20 and AAA at age 22.

Patterson:

Age 20 AA .829 OPS

Age 21 AAA .695 OPS

Pie:

Age 20 AA .903 OPS

Age 21 AAA .792 OPS

Pie is the better prospect.

[Sonny76]

Leo was Leo. I give Dave a pass on his decision. We can hash out every pitcher on the staff but the bottom line is this team needs continuity. They are taking steps to create that. You'll see a whole new organization by Spring Training and everybody will be on the same page. Give Dave Trembley the tools to work with and this guy is going to make this team a hell of alot better than what we've endured. I'll say this...we are real lucky to have a guy with his mentality running the day-to-day of this ballclub. Looking back in time...it amazes me that the Expos organization didn't elevate this guy from Harrisburg years ago when they had the chance. Alot of baseball people knew this guy was a comer. Be glad we somehow wound up with him.

[Fairfax Bird]

Leo was Leo. I give Dave a pass on his decision. We can hash out every pitcher on the staff but the bottom line is this team needs continuity. They are taking steps to create that. You'll see a whole new organization by Spring Training and everybody will be on the same page. Give Dave Trembley the tools to work with and this guy is going to make this team a hell of alot better than what we've endured. I'll say this...we are real lucky to have a guy with his mentality running the day-to-day of this ballclub. Looking back in time...it amazes me that the Expos organization didn't elevate this guy from Harrisburg years ago when they had the chance. Alot of baseball people knew this guy was a comer. Be glad we somehow wound up with him.

Rep points for the positive attitude. I can't wait to see what HE does with his chance to run the show from the beginning. Only hope that the team blows it up and gives him some fresh ears who will pay attention and grow and learn from the beginning with him.

[Spoonless]

Well gee, let's ask the inmates if the warden's style is working, or the soldiers if the general's style is working. Maybe the pitchers should just shut up and learn how to pitch before they pass judgment on whether or not their coach's style suits them.

Riiight...

I suppose you think that every person should respond equally as well to a teaching style, and that because one pitcher can flourish under Mazzone, they should all be able to? That's just garbage.

I'm not saying that the base talent of all these guys is at a high level, but that's not to say it's not possible that there is a high percentage of our pitchers who haven't taken to Mazzone's style. There are two things you can do in that situation: change the students or change the teacher. Or, I suppose you could let the pitchers continue to fail to flourish under Mazzone and then blame them for not being able to improve by sheer fact that Mazzone is the greatest pitching coach that ever coached a pitcher in the entire history of baseball.

The only reason I am somewhat against Mazzone leaving is that there does need to be some sort of consistency at some point. You've got to pick someone and stick with it. Changing pitching coaches every two years is not likely to help any of our pitchers develop.

[Fairfax Bird]

Riiight...

I suppose you think that every person should respond equally as well to a teaching style, and that because one pitcher can flourish under Mazzone, they should all be able to? That's just garbage.

I'm not saying that the base talent of all these guys is at a high level, but that's not to say it's not possible that there is a high percentage of our pitchers who haven't taken to Mazzone's style. There are two things you can do in that situation: change the students or change the teacher. Or, I suppose you could let the pitchers continue to fail to flourish under Mazzone and then blame them for not being able to improve by sheer fact that Mazzone is the greatest pitching coach that ever coached a pitcher in the entire history of baseball.

The only reason I am somewhat against Mazzone leaving is that there does need to be some sort of consistency at some point. You've got to pick someone and stick with it. Changing pitching coaches every two years is not likely to help any of out pitchers develop.

This is a legitimate thought, but prospects change pitching coaches nearly every year. We need a pitching philosophy throughout the organization. Hopefully AM will do this.

[Boy Howdy]

This is a legitimate thought, but prospects change pitching coaches nearly every year. We need a pitching philosophy throughout the organization. Hopefully AM will do this.

Of course, they should've implemented Mazzone's plan top-to-bottom while he was here. Too late now.

One thing I wonder that hasn't been discussed is this: Is it possible that Mazzone was unwilling to commit to the 5 years (or 3 years, whatever it is) that MacPhail/Trembley think will be needed to build a legitimate contender? I know Mazzone intended to fulfill his contract, but maybe the new regime chose to move now in an effort to begin establishing some coaching continuity. (I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt)

[wildcard]

Well hopefully you're right, and the deal comes together with 4 players not named Pie.

Something more like Tejada and Fiorentino for Pie, Cedeno, Wuertz, Murton and AA reliever Jim Henderson.

I am not saying I like it. I just think that is McPhail's style.

[Fairfax Bird]

Of course, they should've implemented Mazzone's plan top-to-bottom while he was here. Too late now.

One thing I wonder that hasn't been discussed is this: Is it possible that Mazzone was unwilling to commit to the 5 years (or 3 years, whatever it is) that MacPhail/Trembley think will be needed to build a legitimate contender? I know Mazzone intended to fulfill his contract, but maybe the new regime chose to move now in an effort to begin establishing some coaching continuity. (I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt)

I don't think that is the case. I think it is a case of Trembley not believing in Mazzone's approach with the staff. I really think Trembley would prefer to work with someone he has more confidence in.

As for the top-down approach, well AM can now fix things that were problems from before. I have a feeling there will be many changes.

[Fairfax Bird]

Something more like Tejada and Fiorentino for Pie, Cedeno, Wuertz, Murton and AA reliever Jim Henderson.

I am not saying I like it. I just think that is McPhail's style.

Huh? The Cubs aren't giving up Pie and Murton. Pipe dream.

[Rockbird]

Not sure I would have given up on Mazzone, but it sounds like it was Dave Trembley's decision, and if that's the case, GOOD. He's the guy that needs to run the team and it looks like we're FINALLY going to let the manager construct his own coaching staff, something Lee Mazzilli and to a lesser extent Perlozzo never got, and to an extent hampered their performances.

If Bedard and Guthrie are really that good they should thrive regardless of who their pitching coach is.

Mazzone will be in pinstripes next year, and I think Kravitz will be our next (yet, another) pitching coach. From the bit I've read of him sounds like a good choice when it comes to working with young pitching. Whoever Trembley picks has my confidence. That's the way it should be.

As for the Cubs (and to answer an earlier question, yes, it appears the Cubs are the only team we trade with since we've burned our bridges with just about every other franchise. Hopefully AM sends some nice Christmas cards out to mend some fences)- and a Tejada trade, Pie and Cedeno is where it's at.

[Darthy Katt]

I don't blame Trembley for firing Mazzone. There were just too many injuries on the staff from being overworked.