Mazzone let go

[cindyluvsbrady]

I was shocked and angry to hear about this. This was a dumb thing to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rolliefingers]

I choose to just sit back and watch. I don't have the heart to speculate and/or comment at the next array of names that walk the hallowed Oriole Dugouts. I pray that whatever it is... it works. This O's fan just wants something to be proud of again, without even a hint of indecisiveness, incompetence, internal strife, and steroid whispers.

I couldn't agree more. I have lost the ability to get worked up about this anymore.

[wildcard]

Seems like the Cubs need pitching... they picked up Trachsel's option... so why would they trade Hill? Perhaps we'll get Trachsel back? lol

Do you have a link on Trachsel's option being picked up. I saw where a reporter said in might happen. I have not seen that it has happened.

[wildcard]

I was told a few days ago Pie and a pitcher will be the package we'll look for in trade for Tejada.

If Tejada gets traded I am expecting 3 maybe 4 players in return.

From the 9/30/07 Andy McPhail interview:

Tom Davis: Earlier you mentioned the Frank Viola trade, 5 for 1. How important is it, if you're going to make deals, that you get 2 or 3 back for 1 under the situation the Orioles are in right now?

AM: I'm a big believer in trying to get as many back. I do think that no one knows for certain how these guys are going to play out, and there is some safety in numbers, particularly if you're dealing a Frank Viola that is a known commodity and just really a very low risk for the Mets at that time, but taking him there. I'm taking on the risk, because I'm dealing a known commodity for what I hope is in the future. And one of the ways that I can push the odds a little bit in my favor that this deal is going to work out for my club as well, is by getting a couple guys. So, God forbid one gets hurt, or whatever, I still have the chance for getting fair value back based on the other couple guys we got. Like I mentioned in the Viola trade, the most highly touted young player coming back was David West, the left-hander; the one who turned out to be the best was Kevin Tapani, the right-hander.

[Boy Howdy]

Well gee, let's ask the inmates if the warden's style is working, or the soldiers if the general's style is working. Maybe the pitchers should just shut up and learn how to pitch before they pass judgment on whether or not their coach's style suits them. I think his record has earned him the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

As an Orioles fan, I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but the historical record indicates that we shouldn't expect our cast of pitchers to improve with Mazzone gone. It's more likely the opposite will happen.

Again, I'll be thrilled if everything works out for the best.

[JTrea81]

Well if we took a poll on if this was the right move, I would certainly be in the minority.

Mazzone is the best there is and we gave him nothing to work with. Trembley said as much and so did Leo during the course of the season that we did not have major league pitchers. The guys who thrived under him are the ones you build you future around, Bedard, Guthrie, Loewen; the ones who regressed are not talented/motivated enough to be major league pitchers. Sure, Trembley deserves the chance to bring in his own coaches but how can you dismiss one of the most successful pitching coaches of all-time?

He has had success with veteran starters, but as Smoltz mentioned he isn't good with younger pitchers. Olson should be in the majors, Liz should be in the majors. Hoey has dominated the minors and he gets here and forgets how to pitch? I don't buy that these guys aren't talented enough. Mazzone just wasn't willing to adapt to harness their talent.

Kranitz has been praised for teaching his pitchers how to get the batter out, not just how to throw the ball. Mazzone was lacking in the former as again mentioned by Smoltz and that is what we need right now. Who is going to teach these guys how to get ML hitters out if the pitching coach won't do it? That is why these guys struggled.

[Ofanslikepain]

So he doesnt work well with young pitchers?? How old was Glavine and Smoltz when he started working with them? I lived in Ga for 10 years so when I heard that Leo was leaving I was a bit annoyed felt like the end of an era but the only thing that made it ok was that he was going to my beloved Os... I guess I was stupid enough to believe he would be given a real chance to right this mess. Bedard is a better pitcher now, Guthrie was a no name until Leo found him and Loewen was doing great under him. You really can´t comment about anyone else cause everyone else got hurt!!!! Oh then there is Cabrera but he is just a freak of nature trying to pass off as a pitcher and might one day but with the patiences of this team it will probably be somewhere else. Another pitcher that succeed under Leo was Traschel and then convientley exploded right after he left. I can´t believe the only reasoning for this is to let an unproven manger that might not make it through next year pick his own people. Its not like we signed Joe Torre and are letting him pick his own people. This is a retarded move by an organization that has shown nothing but retarded moves since the day they got ride of Davey Johnson. I just really hope they make up for it by making some good trades this year.

[Fairfax Bird]

Well gee, let's ask the inmates if the warden's style is working, or the soldiers if the general's style is working. Maybe the pitchers should just shut up and learn how to pitch before they pass judgment on whether or not their coach's style suits them. I think his record has earned him the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

Mazzone didn't have the effect "we" thought he would because "we" apparently thought he could turn AAA talent into Cy Young candidates.

To bad they didn't ask you what you think. Bottom line is that the pitching was ranked 29th out of 30 both years he was here. One year, yeah you say that it was a transition period. Second year, not so much. Now, injuries et al, I don't blame it all on him, but as Frobby says I have no problem with letting Trembley pick the man he WANTS for the job.

[Fairfax Bird]

If Tejada gets traded I am expecting 3 maybe 4 players in return.

Then the 3 to 4 players won't have as high a ceiling.

I could see a Marmol/Pie deal. I could see a Cedeno/Pie deal.

If it is 3 players I would think it would be something more along the lines of Cedeno/Fotenot/Patterson deal. Patterson of course as an OF, not as a 2B.

[davearm]

If Tejada gets traded I am expecting 3 maybe 4 players in return.

Well hopefully you're right, and the deal comes together with 4 players not named Pie.

[Fairfax Bird]

I am telling you that part of this has to do with the BP and Mazzone not working with them.

I think people are overlooking the quote Tony posted.

I read that as DT not believing that Mazzone works well with young pitchers.

We knew that this was an issue with Mazzone but it was also an easy with young guys who are "soft"....So, maybe DT wants these guys cottled too much????

I agree with this entire thing, except the bolded part. Younger pitchers might need a softer touch, that doesn't mean DT wants to cottle them too much.

[Boy Howdy]

Giving credit where credit is due, a fellow calling himself "Dag Nabbit Voted For Topinka" points out the following examples of Mazzone helping young pitchers in Atlanta (from BBTF):

Avery-Glavine-Smoltz

Kent Mercker

Kevin Millwood

Mark Wohlers

John Rocker

Terrell Wade

Kevin McGlinchy

Jason Marquis

Horacio Ramirez

Tim Spooneybarger

Blaine Boyer

To say Mazzone isn't good with younger pitchers is an overstatement.

[JTrea81]

Well hopefully you're right, and the deal comes together with 4 players not named Pie.

What is it about Pie that makes you think he isn't the next Corey Patterson? Patterson was actually better than Pie as a prospect.

[JTrea81]

I agree with this entire thing, except the bolded part. Younger pitchers might need a softer touch, that doesn't mean DT wants to cottle them too much.

And this exactly what Kranitz's nature is: laid back, and he's also from California just like Olson and Penn.

[Fairfax Bird]

What is it about Pie that makes you think he isn't the next Corey Patterson? Patterson was actually better than Pie as a prospect.

I'll have to check on this, but I don't think Patterson at any time put up the numbers Pie did at AA at age 20 and AAA at age 22.