Mazzone let go

[OrioleWay27]

We're going to get owned if we deal Tejada for Pie and a pitcher, unless it's Hill (doubtful) or Marmol. I expect to Pie to be no better than Corey Patterson has turned out to be.

[olehippi]

Now that Mazzone is history, besides Bedard, Guthrie should be on the trading block. Without Mazzone around to instruct him, he might revert back to what he was with the Indians. I'd at least listen to offers.

So you think Gutherie will forget what he "learned" from Mazzone and suddenly turn into Russ Ortiz? Gutherie seems a little smarter than that to me. Usually the more teachers you have, the more you learn.

[Sunner]

Blow everything up, but do not get rid of anybody. This is the hard part of change, if you want true change this is part of it.

[Jules]

Well if we took a poll on if this was the right move, I would certainly be in the minority.

Mazzone is the best there is and we gave him nothing to work with. Trembley said as much and so did Leo during the course of the season that we did not have major league pitchers. The guys who thrived under him are the ones you build you future around, Bedard, Guthrie, Loewen; the ones who regressed are not talented/motivated enough to be major league pitchers. Sure, Trembley deserves the chance to bring in his own coaches but how can you dismiss one of the most successful pitching coaches of all-time?

[ExileAngelos]

Hang in there boys. I see maybe ten more years of hard times but after that we will have a team to get excited about again.

[Herbie]

Well if we took a poll on if this was the right move, I would certainly be in the minority.

Mazzone is the best there is and we gave him nothing to work with. Trembley said as much and so did Leo during the course of the season that we did not have major league pitchers. The guys who thrived under him are the ones you build you future around, Bedard, Guthrie, Loewen; the ones who regressed are not talented/motivated enough to be major league pitchers. Sure, Trembley deserves the chance to bring in his own coaches but how can you dismiss one of the most successful pitching coaches of all-time?

I'm with you, brother. If you have to choose between Mazzone and Trembley, it's gotta be "thanks Dave, good luck in your future endeavors."

[byrdz]

Well if we took a poll on if this was the right move, I would certainly be in the minority.

The majority may say that Mazzone does not work well with young up and coming pitchers. We have seen evidence of this in both seasons he was with the O's and from quotes from his former team. Yeah it could be the lack of implementation of his program but if they don't intend on doing so then may as well let him be on his way because if that's what it takes then it will never work out.

Also it sounds like he's better suited for established pitchers who need refinement or reclamation projects like the Russ Otiz' of the world. This is not the direction the O's are or should be going obviously.

[bigbird]

The majority may say that Mazzone does not work well with young up and coming pitchers. We have seen evidence of this in both seasons he was with the O's and from quotes from his former team. Yeah it could be the lack of implementation of his program but if they don't intend on doing so then may as well let him be on his way because if that's what it takes then it will never work out.

Also it sounds like he's better suited for established pitchers who need refinement or reclamation projects like the Russ Otiz' of the world. This is not the direction the O's are or should be going obviously.

Guess it's how you define young up and coming.

[Jules]

.

Also it sounds like he's better suited for established pitchers who need refinement or reclamation projects like the Russ Otiz' of the world. This is not the direction the O's are or should be going obviously.

Or better yet he works better with pitchers who have talent. They should not be going after Russ Ortiz's; they should be going after the Maddux's, Glavine's, Guthrie's, Bedards', etc.

[pgsentinelmike]

I'm somewhat conflicted with this.

On the one hand, Mazzone moved to Baltimore to work under his good friend Sam Perlozzo, so when Perlozzo was fired, it looked unlikely that Mazzone would stay in an Orioles uniform beyond 2007.

On the other hand, a new pitching coach will likely mean a whole new philosophy of doing things, a new organization-wide development program, etc. That generally doesn't serve young pitchers very well.

Having said that, the results over two seasons speak for themselves. Perhaps it's time to change the voice of the guy trudging to the mound while Trembley sits with arms folded in the dugout.

[davearm]

Seems like the Cubs need pitching... they picked up Trachsel's option... so why would they trade Hill? Perhaps we'll get Trachsel back? lol

No they didn't, and won't.

[Chollie Eckman]

It looks like they want the coaches in the organization to get younger. Seems that way anyway.

[Why Not?]

No they didn't, and won't.

Ken Rosenthal reported that the option would be picked up, though I would be amazed if he was correct.

[goodburger34]

Are the cubs the only team that will deal with the orioles?

[longflyball]

Eh, what do the Baltimore Orioles need with one of the most successful pitching coaches in baseball? We can come last in the league in ERA without him!!!!

I have yet to hear a convincing argument, absent of assumptions, hearsay, or speculation, for specifically why this action is justified. What follows, posted in another thread on 10/1, is what we are letting go.

Mike Remlinger had a 4.63 ERA. From 1999-2002 with the Braves Remlinger compiled a 2.65 ERA.

In 2001 37 year old John Burkett had the best year of his career pitching for the Braves, compiling a 3.04 ERA and 187 K's in 219.1 IP.

Baltimore trade acquisition Damian Moss compiled a 3.40 ERA in 188 career innings with the Braves. With 3 different teams since then Moss compiled a 5.70 ERA and last saw big league action in 2004.

In 2002-2004 Kevin Gryboski compiled a 3.38 ERA in 146.1 relief innings. Since leaving he hasn't been able to find steady work.

In 2003-2005 with the Braves Horacio Ramirez compiled a 4.07 ERA in 445 innings. In 2006 under pitching coach Roger McDowell and in 2007 with Seattle, Ramirez has compiled a 5.99 ERA.

In 2002-2003 Russ Ortiz compiled a 3.97 ERA in 417 innings with the Braves. His ERA in all other ML action is 4.59.

In 2004 Antonino Alfonseca compiled a 2.57 ERA in 73.2 IP for the Braves. His ERA in all other ML action is 4.32.

In 2002 Juan Cruz compiled a 2.75 ERA in 72 IP for the Braves. His ERA in all other ML action is 4.42.

In 2004 current Oriole Jaret Wright compiled a 3.28 ERA in 186.1 IP for the Braves. His ERA in all other ML action is 5.52.

In 2005 Jorge Sosa compiled a 2.55 ERA in 134 IP with the Braves. Under Roger McDowell and with all other teams his ERA is 5.08.

In 2001 Jose Cabrera compiled a 2.88 ERA in 59.1 IP for the Braves. His ERA in all other ML action is 5.53.

In 2002 36 year old Darren Holmes had the best year of his career for the Braves, compiling a 1.81 ERA in 54.2 IP.