Mazzone let go

[wildcard]

Huh? The Cubs aren't giving up Pie and Murton. Pipe dream.

Every team gives up something to get something.

Besides, Pineilla doesn't even like to play Murton. Murton doesn't have the arm for center or right. He is only a left fielder and that is where Soriano plays. This would put Tejada at SS, Theriot at 2B/UT and move DeRosa 2B/RF.

Tejada would help the Cubs win the division and maybe more for the next two years. He would probably make the trade look bad for the O's. None of the Cubs beside Wuertz is a prove major league player. Pie, Murton and Cedeno combined had 485 at bats. In a normal year Tejada will give you 600+. Trading the great ones always makes you look bad.

[geschinger]

What a far cry this is from the jubilation around here the day Mazzone signed with us. While I don't put the blame squarely on him for the team's pitching performance during his two years, the numbers certainly don't suggest that he's so irreplaceable that we should keep him even if the manager would prefer to have someone else.

I think Bedard and Guthrie will be fine without him, and Cabrera may be better off. The one who will miss Mazzone is Loewen, who seemed to be developing nicely under Mazzone's tutelage.

It makes me wonder what the motives were to hiring him in the first place considering his program wasn't implemented system wide. The franchise is going to look even more foolish a couple of years from now after he goes somewhere else where they buy into what he has to offer. Yet another squandered opportunity.

[Sports Guy]

Leo was Leo. I give Dave a pass on his decision. We can hash out every pitcher on the staff but the bottom line is this team needs continuity. They are taking steps to create that. You'll see a whole new organization by Spring Training and everybody will be on the same page. Give Dave Trembley the tools to work with and this guy is going to make this team a hell of alot better than what we've endured. I'll say this...we are real lucky to have a guy with his mentality running the day-to-day of this ballclub. Looking back in time...it amazes me that the Expos organization didn't elevate this guy from Harrisburg years ago when they had the chance. Alot of baseball people knew this guy was a comer. Be glad we somehow wound up with him.

No offense but we have heard this before..seemingly every offseason....As Tony says...Actions speak louder than worder.

[Sports Guy]

Huh? The Cubs aren't giving up Pie and Murton. Pipe dream.

Do you know how awful Murton was this year?

If they aren't willing to trade Pie and Murton, just move on right now.

Besides, the Cubs are way down on the list of teams we need to be talking to about Miggy.

[33rd&Ellerslie]

For what it is worth; I have heard that the Royals would be very interested in Mazzone. He has strong ties to Dayton Moore and would join the list of managerial candidates along with Jim Fregosi, Ken Macha and Jimy Williams. The Royals sent out feelers to Joe Girardi, however he is waiting to see what happens with the Yankees and the Cardinals from what I hear.

I don't have any brilliant inside source or anything remotely similar; I just love talking baseball with one of the local sports broadcasters that comes into the restaurant and he heard Mazzone's name mentioned earlier today. The Royals really feel like they are in a position to make a push so just for the sake of adding, he mentioned hearing interest in Tejada and he threw around a package to include Greinke, Pena Jr. and Chris Lubanski although the Royals would want some of our young pitching, i.e. Penn or Olson also.

I wish Leo Mazzone well, wherever he goes, but I am very excited about the Orioles. The perception, at least here in Kansas City, is that Andy MacPhail and Dave Trembley are very much on the same page and the Orioles will be active in the winter meetings. By the way, although it has been said 100 times, he thinks Rick Kranitz will definitely be the next pitching coach for the O's.

[Sports Guy]

For what it is worth; I have heard that the Royals would be very interested in Mazzone. He has strong ties to Dayton Moore and would join the list of managerial candidates along with Jim Fregosi, Ken Macha and Jimy Williams. The Royals sent out feelers to Joe Girardi, however he is waiting to see what happens with the Yankees and the Cardinals from what I hear.

I don't have any brilliant inside source or anything remotely similar; I just love talking baseball with one of the local sports broadcasters that comes into the restaurant and he heard Mazzone's name mentioned earlier today. The Royals really feel like they are in a position to make a push so just for the sake of adding, he mentioned hearing interest in Tejada and he threw around a package to include Greinke, Pena Jr. and Chris Lubanski although the Royals would want some of our young pitching, i.e. Penn or Olson also.

I wish Leo Mazzone well, wherever he goes, but I am very excited about the Orioles. The perception, at least here in Kansas City, is that Andy MacPhail and Dave Trembley are very much on the same page and the Orioles will be active in the winter meetings. By the way, although it has been said 100 times, he thinks Rick Kranitz will definitely be the next pitching coach for the O's.

Interesting post...Thanks for sharing.

[El Gordo]

Do you know how awful Murton was this year?

If they aren't willing to trade Pie and Murton, just move on right now.

Besides, the Cubs are way down on the list of teams we need to be talking to about Miggy.

.281, .790 OPS is awful ? Sure would like to have that kind of awful in LF over Payton.

[Sports Guy]

.281, .790 OPS is awful ? Sure would like to have that kind of awful in LF over Payton.

Ahh...Hadn't realized he got his OPS back up...It was under 700 for a while.

[wildcard]

.281, .790 OPS is awful ? Sure would like to have that kind of awful in LF over Payton.

235 at bats for 22 rbi for a corner outfield is Payton territory. 4 errors in 32 starts in RF is probably something the Cubs do not want to see again either. Like I said, he is a leftfielder. I really don't see them moving Soriano out of left for Murton

[Rockbird]

For what it is worth; I have heard that the Royals would be very interested in Mazzone. He has strong ties to Dayton Moore and would join the list of managerial candidates along with Jim Fregosi, Ken Macha and Jimy Williams. The Royals sent out feelers to Joe Girardi, however he is waiting to see what happens with the Yankees and the Cardinals from what I hear.

I don't have any brilliant inside source or anything remotely similar; I just love talking baseball with one of the local sports broadcasters that comes into the restaurant and he heard Mazzone's name mentioned earlier today. The Royals really feel like they are in a position to make a push so just for the sake of adding, he mentioned hearing interest in Tejada and he threw around a package to include Greinke, Pena Jr. and Chris Lubanski although the Royals would want some of our young pitching, i.e. Penn or Olson also.

I wish Leo Mazzone well, wherever he goes, but I am very excited about the Orioles. The perception, at least here in Kansas City, is that Andy MacPhail and Dave Trembley are very much on the same page and the Orioles will be active in the winter meetings. By the way, although it has been said 100 times, he thinks Rick Kranitz will definitely be the next pitching coach for the O's.

Mazzone for manager? Why? He doesn't exactly sound like a great communicator. We did the whole "turn the great pitching coach into a manager" thing with Ray Miller, it didn't work. Don't think it would work with Leo either. Besides, after all the fun he had in Baltimore I highly doubt Mazzone is looking to go to another losing franchise with young starters like the Royals. I'd pretty much guarantee he's a Yankee, if Guidry is let go.

I can't think of a Tejada trade to the Royals that would involve players the Royals want to trade.

I'm sure Miggy would just LOVE that though. Him and Leo can be miserable in their plight there together.

[24fps]

I was one who felt Leo had something to offer the O's in 2008 so I'm of two minds about his release. I suppose that if this is another step in Trembley hiring his own coaches and thus putting his stamp on the the team, then I'm fine with it.

Good luck Leo.

I will be dissappointed if it comes out that Leo's organizational strategy was never given the opportunity to succeed while he was here. Does anyone know for a fact that he actually had an organizational strategy to put into effect in the first place?

[33rd&Ellerslie]

Mazzone for manager? Why? He doesn't exactly sound like a great communicator. We did the whole "turn the great pitching coach into a manager" thing with Ray Miller, it didn't work. Don't think it would work with Leo either. Besides, after all the fun he had in Baltimore I highly doubt Mazzone is looking to go to another losing franchise with young starters like the Royals. I'd pretty much guarantee he's a Yankee, if Guidry is let go.

I can't think of a Tejada trade to the Royals that would involve players the Royals want to trade.

I'm sure Miggy would just LOVE that though. Him and Leo can be miserable in their plight there together.

Rockbird, again I am not saying it is a good or bad idea and I am sure you are far wiser in the ways of baseball than I am; I am just passing along something I found interesting. But to answer your question, apparently Dayton Moore thinks very highly of Leo Mazzone as both a coach and communicator. The Royals, although a "losing franchise" are exactly the kind of team S.G. has been calling for here in Baltimore, and they do feel that they will be contenders very shortly. They project Billy Butler in LF (2004 draft), DeJesus in Center (28 next year), Teahan in Right (2002 draft), Gordon at third (2005 draft), Shealy at First (2002 draft), Buck behind the plate (28 next year) and will look to add a big bat. They may be interested in Bonds, believe it or not. They feel they have a great core of young, talented players with Grudzielanek and Meche to add Veteran Leadership. Their weakness is in the pitching staff. They are hoping Bannister can continue to progress just as we are hoping from Guthrie. They think very, very highly of Luke Hochevar (2006 draft) and think Soria (24 next year) is a strong closer.

As far as players the Royals would want to trade or we would want, I have no idea to be honest with you, they were just names he threw out and for some reason he thinks the Orioles have expressed interest in Greinke before. Bigbird or someone with a lot more information can probably tell us both this part is hobbledy-gook and that is alright; it is a beer-fueled conversation amongst two friends who love the game.

Finally, Miggy might be miserable in Kansas City and so might Leo, but the Royals have direction and feel that they can contend next year with a nucleus of good players all under thirty. I would say their future looks less miserable than ours right now.

[Rockbird]

33rd&Ellerslie, no problem, appreciate you passing along the info. And believe me I don't know any more about baseball than you or anyone else around here.

I'm just saying I don't see how any of it makes sense. I agree the Royals are on the right tract, but they're still not there yet when it comes to their pitching staff.

Mazzone as manager is absolutely puzzling to me though. For their direction I would think they would want either a young "movement" guy to lead the team or a grizzled "leadership" type to take them to the next level. I don't see how a pitching coach with a reputation for little patience and poor communication and zero managerial experience makes much sense to trust the direction of the team to.

Also, don't see it from Mazzone's perspective, who I get the feeling really missed being on a winner, and with all due respect to the Royal rebuilding, they're still a ways away from passing Cleveland, Detroit and Minnesota (as long as they have Santana).

I also don't see how trading for Tejada helps their direction (or signing Bonds! Unless their goal is to increase attendance and revenue quick, we tried it with Sosa, didn't work). Tejada is a "one bat away from contention" player, which with all due respect, the Royals are not there.

Also, Tejada desperately wants to play for a winner while he's still in his prime years, clearly regrets signing in Baltimore and would likely be very unhappy on another perennial losing team (going in the right direction or not. Miggy wants to win now).

And again, the Orioles only want top young talent back like Hochevar, Butler, Teahan, Dejesus, etc. and it would make zero sense for KC to trade those players who they project as part of their future.

So it's all just very odd to me as a concept. But we'll see.

[davearm]

Ahh...Hadn't realized he got his OPS back up...It was under 700 for a while.

LOL -- you love to chuckle at the Markakis / Murton comps, and think, oh there goes davearm overvaluing his crappy Cubbies again.

Well the two were both 900+ OPSers the 2nd half this year, when Murton finally got some regular PT (Murton 918, Markakis 939).

And when the two got similar ABs over a full season (2006), they were basically even in OPS then, too (Murton 809, Markakis 799).

For their careers: Murton 820, Markakis 826.

As much as you wish I was wrong, sadly for you, I'm not.

[davearm]

Something more like Tejada and Fiorentino for Pie, Cedeno, Wuertz, Murton and AA reliever Jim Henderson.

I am not saying I like it. I just think that is McPhail's style.

Oh brother.

I thought we had moved past sticking the likes of Jeff Fiorentino and JJ Johnson in trade proposals.

I'm sure they're nice guys, but nobody else needs or wants guys like this.