Roch talks about filling 1B

[El Gordo]

Vmart for 2 years and an option would be very solid.

VMart for 3 years at 12 million or less would be tolerable but not really that great.

Vmart for 4 years, ie the length of contract we need to give him, would be horrible.

For the Red Sox yes. For the O's, the price of admission. We have to overpay to play.

[sandman0838]

I rank them like this

1. Britton

2. Matusz

3. Arrieta

4. Tillman

Some would be surprised to see Britton ahead of Matusz, but groundball pitchers fit the O's the best and Britton has an insane GB rate which makes him made for OPACY. The fact that he's LH shoots him to the top as our most valuable pitcher IMO.

Tillman is the most expendable out of those 4, though I wouldn't hesitate to trade Arrieta in the right deal.

I agree with those rankings, GB pitchers are so valuable in the MLB. I just really hope he doesn't hit the wall like Porcello has even though he is still such a young pitcher.

If Britton can keep the ball on the ground and get 4-6 K's a game then he will develop into a great pitcher for us.

[Sports Guy]

For the Red Sox yes. For the O's, the price of admission. We have to overpay to play.

No, for the Red Sox, it would be no big deal because when he isn't good, they can afford that..The Orioles can't.

A 4 year contract for Vmart is just stupid..You have to really not know what you are doing to give him that contract.

If it takes 4 years for him to come here, and I think it would, then you move on to the next option.

[Art Wing]

Vmart for 2 years and an option would be very solid.

VMart for 3 years at 12 million or less would be tolerable but not really that great.

Vmart for 4 years, ie the length of contract we need to give him, would be horrible.

Given the other 1B options out there, I wouldn't even be happy with him for 2 years. I'd pass. His real value is at catcher.

[SteveA]

No, for the Red Sox, it would be no big deal because when he isn't good, they can afford that..The Orioles can't.

A 4 year contract for Vmart is just stupid..You have to really not know what you are doing to give him that contract.

If it takes 4 years for him to come here, and I think it would, then you move on to the next option.

If you keep applying that logic, and keep on moving to lesser and lesser options, but find that each one is not worth us paying what the market would pay, eventually you wind up inviting Garrett Atkins back for the major league minimum.

Sometimes you have to pay for what you need. If my pipes burst tonight, and I call all the plumbers and decide that each one is charging more than I feel their work is worth, then do I not hire a plumber? No, because I NEED to get it fixed.

I'm not necessarily advocating a pro-Martinez position here. It's just that when you ahve a gaping hole on your team that NEEDS to be filled, shooting down possibilities merely because they are not cost-effective is not going to fly with me. UNLESS you ALSO demonstrate that there ARE cost-effective ways to fill that position out there.

[Sports Guy]

If you keep applying that logic, and keep on moving to lesser and lesser options, but find that each one is not worth us paying what the market would pay, eventually you wind up inviting Garrett Atkins back for the major league minimum.

Sometimes you have to pay for what you need. If my pipes burst tonight, and I call all the plumbers and decide that each one is charging more than I feel their work is worth, then do I not hire a plumber? No, because I NEED to get it fixed.

I'm not necessarily advocating a pro-Martinez position here. It's just that when you ahve a gaping hole on your team that NEEDS to be filled, shooting down possibilities merely because they are not cost-effective is not going to fly with me. UNLESS you ALSO demonstrate that there ARE cost-effective ways to fill that position out there.

You overpay for players that make sense..Vmart isn't one of those players. Dunn isn't one of those players.

[OsEatAlEast]

I don't think Tillman's perceived value (what we could get in a trade for him) is anywhere near his actual value (what he will become). So, unless someone wants to pay for his "actual value" I wouldn't trade him.

I agree! With trades you have to strike while the iron is hot. With Tillman the iron has barely touched the fire. I think it would have to be a package deal to get any value for Tillman. So who else do the O's have to trade to get a decent 1b/3b?

[El Gordo]

You overpay for players that make sense..Vmart isn't one of those players. Dunn isn't one of those players.

What you don't seem to understand is that we will have to overpay for any of the FA 1B, VMart, Lee or Overbay. If you want to go that route that's the reality of it. So if you want Lee you will have to overpay him for at least 2 years. Is he going to be more productive than Martinez for those 2 years? So if you want more production in the next 2-3 years you are going to have to overpay for it, whether VMart, Dunn, or Konerko is your flavor of the month. Of course we could always fill that hole with one of your magical trades.:rolleyestf:.

[OrioleMagic]

Regardless of anything else, I think when Roch prints this speculation it immediately lessens Tillman's trade value. I know Roch's job is to be a journalist, but... still.

[Arthur_Bryant]

Regardless of anything else, I think when Roch prints this speculation it immediately lessens Tillman's trade value. I know Roch's job is to be a journalist, but... still.

Tillman's trade value is determined by other teams' scouting reports and needs, and by their general sense of the marketplace based on conversations with other teams' front office people. When Hendry or Towers or Daniels are considering a trade, I am pretty sure that they don't run an online search and read every snippet that has been written about the prospective target. They don't have to: if Tillman is available, that is already common knowledge within the game.

And yes, Roch's job is to be a journalist. Or at least a quasi-journalist, given his unusual position.

[OrioleMagic]

Tillman's trade value is determined by other teams' scouting reports and needs, and by their general sense of the marketplace based on conversations with other teams' front office people. When Hendry or Towers or Daniels are considering a trade, I am pretty sure that they don't run an online search and read every snippet that has been written about the prospective target. They don't have to: if Tillman is available, that is already common knowledge within the game.

And yes, Roch's job is to be a journalist. Or at least a quasi-journalist, given his unusual position.

I hope you are absolutely right. I'd like to see a nice trade this off-season.

[Guest rochester]

What you don't seem to understand is that we will have to overpay for any of the FA 1B, VMart, Lee or Overbay. If you want to go that route that's the reality of it. So if you want Lee you will have to overpay him for at least 2 years. Is he going to be more productive than Martinez for those 2 years? So if you want more production in the next 2-3 years you are going to have to overpay for it, whether VMart, Dunn, or Konerko is your flavor of the month. Of course we could always fill that hole with one of your magical trades.:rolleyestf:.

I like this... someday we will need to overpay for someone that will help instead of paying someone who is well, unhelpful. When do we start?

El Gordo is right - for us to get to a point to not overpay for quality we will need to overpay for quality so the results are better which will mean we hopefully won't have to overpay in the future because our overpaid players...

aww forget it..

I will say I assume a majority of folks here would rather not give VMart a 4 year deal but to call is stupid is being a bit reactionary

[Sports Guy]

What you don't seem to understand is that we will have to overpay for any of the FA 1B, VMart, Lee or Overbay. If you want to go that route that's the reality of it. So if you want Lee you will have to overpay him for at least 2 years. Is he going to be more productive than Martinez for those 2 years? So if you want more production in the next 2-3 years you are going to have to overpay for it, whether VMart, Dunn, or Konerko is your flavor of the month. Of course we could always fill that hole with one of your magical trades.:rolleyestf:.

It must suck to be someone that has to interact with you on a daily basis.

Anyway, I would rather overpay for 2 years than 4. The years are the real issue.

[Sports Guy]

I like this... someday we will need to overpay for someone that will help instead of paying someone who is well, unhelpful. When do we start?

El Gordo is right - for us to get to a point to not overpay for quality we will need to overpay for quality so the results are better which will mean we hopefully won't have to overpay in the future because our overpaid players...

aww forget it..

I will say I assume a majority of folks here would rather not give VMart a 4 year deal but to call is stupid is being a bit reactionary

Only if you choose to ignore stats and 100 years of baseball history.

[Guest rochester]

Only if you choose to ignore stats and 100 years of baseball history.

I am not disagreeing but at the same time, there has to be a time that we bite the bullet...Tex was supposed to be and should have been IMO but spending (IIRC) $10M on Atkins and Tejada is worse.