Roch talks about filling 1B

[JTrea81]

You really need to read this over and over until you get it: “In baseball, if you convince yourself you need a certain player, you’ve already lost. One player doesn’t have that much impact,” said Epstein. “It’s about building organizations. It’s not about adding players"

And then you should contemplate this: "The capacity of human beings to bore one another seems to be vastly greater than that of any other animal." H. L. Mencken :rolleyestf:

Could we wait on 1B? Yes. But it is a priority to fix now, and Fielder is available this offseason, and he'll likely cost less that Gonzalez to acquire.

And he's the perfect fit for what the Orioles need next year and beyond.

Konerko and Martinez could also be options, but we'll have competition and they'll likely want too much for what they'll be worth.

Signing Derrek Lee or Carlos Pena will not accomplish why 1B needs to be upgraded in the first place.

To get Fielder, you have to deal pitching to Milwaukee. The only teams you are competing against are the ones that are willing to offer more or better pitching and pay him $15 million or so for 2011, and I doubt there are many. Fielder would also have no say in going to Baltimore or not.

[Crazysilver03]

Could we wait on 1B? Yes. But it is a priority to fix now, and Fielder is available this offseason, and he'll likely cost less that Gonzalez to acquire.

And he's the perfect fit for what the Orioles need next year and beyond.

Konerko and Martinez could also be options, but we'll have competition and they'll likely want too much for what they'll be worth.

Derrek Lee and Carlos Pena will not accomplish why 1B needs to be upgraded in the first place.

To get Fielder, you have to deal pitching to Milwaukee. The only teams you are competiting against are the ones that are willing to offer more or better pitching, and I doubt there are many.

Fielder is theoretically available this off season and next off season.

[El Gordo]

Could we wait on 1B? Yes. But it is a priority to fix now, and Fielder is available this offseason, and he'll likely cost less that Gonzalez to acquire.

And he's the perfect fit for what the Orioles need next year and beyond.

Konerko and Martinez could also be options, but we'll have competition and they'll likely want too much for what they'll be worth.

Derrek Lee and Carlos Pena will not accomplish why 1B needs to be upgraded in the first place.

To get Fielder, you have to deal pitching to Milwaukee. The only teams you are competiting against are the ones that are willing to offer more or better pitching, and I doubt there are many.

You obviously didn't read Theo's statement. We need to upgrade at a number of positions. we are woefully below average at 1B, SS, 3B, and LF. Throwing all your apples into one 300 lb basket is dumb. We would do better to get a Loney type 1B, a Bartlett type SS, an Uribe type 3B and a Pie/Reimold paltoon in LF. We don't need one 850 OPS, 300 lb. bust in waiting, to bust us.:rolleyestf:

[JTrea81]

Fielder is theoretically available this off season and next off season.

He might be there next offseason, or he might not. Odds are he will, but if he and Gonzalez aren't there next offseason, then what? And don't think we have a chance at Pujols.

You need to acquire the talent when it is available.

Here's the list of premium bats after 2012 and the age they will be.

FA after 2012:

Josh Hamilton (32)

FA after 2013:

Joey Votto (30)

David Wright (31)

FA after 2014:

Hanley Ramirez (31)

FA after 2015:

Miguel Cabrera (33)

Ryan Braun (32)

[El Gordo]

He might be there next offseason, or he might not. Odds are he will, but if he and Gonzalez aren't there next offseason, then what?

You need to acquire the talent when it is available.

Here's the list of premium bats after 2012 and the age they will be.

This is your problem. We don't need premium bats. We need a bunch of good bats. I'd rather have 3 Markakises to one Fat Prince.

[Guest rochester]

And why is Vmart "that time"?

I am not particularly saying VMart himself but I'd rather give him an extra year to (hopefully) get over that hump than paying a heck of a lot more in years and $$ to overpay for a Fielder....

[Stotle]

The Yankees have the arguably the #1 prospect in baseball, C Jesus Montero.

I don't know that many evaluators would argue that he is the #1 prospect in baseball -- in fact, I think no one would. But he is certainly very talented and in their plans.

[Crazysilver03]

I don't know that many evaluators would argue that he is the #1 prospect in baseball -- in fact, I think no one would. But he is certainly very talented and in their plans.

Who would rank as #1 now that several players have made their ascension?

Would Hellickson and McGee both rank higher?

[JTrea81]

This is your problem. We don't need premium bats. We need a bunch of good bats. I'd rather have 3 Markakises to one Fat Prince.

And then you have 3 roster spots taken up when you could get that production in one player.

The Orioles right now are a 75-80 win team without taking into account 4 positions.

And those positions are 1B, 3B, LF and SS. By filling those spots with say 3 2.0 WAR players instead of a 6 WAR player you are now down to one roster spot to get the rest of the WAR needed to reach 90+ wins.

Ditto if you were to sign two 3.0 WAR players. Now you only have two roster spots to play with.

By signing a premium position player, it takes away need of having to have one or two players absolutely have to reach their potential or higher. There is more room for injuries or disappointments from the rest of your roster.

[El Gordo]

I don't know that many evaluators would argue that he is the #1 prospect in baseball -- in fact, I think no one would. But he is certainly very talented and in their plans.

But from what I've heard he's a catcher who just can't catch.

[El Gordo]

And then you have 3 roster spots taken up when you could get that production in one player.

The Orioles right now are a 75-80 win team without taking into account 4 positions.

And those positions are 1B, 3B, LF and SS. By filling those spots with say 3 2.0 WAR players instead of a 6 WAR player you are now down to one roster spot to get the rest of the WAR needed to reach 90+ wins.

Ditto if you were to sign two 3.0 WAR players. Now you only have two roster spots to play with.

By signing a premium position player, it takes away need of having to have one or two players absolutely have to reach their potential or higher. There is more room for injuries or disappointments from the rest of your roster.

I said 3 Markakises. If you think he is a 2 War player and Fielder is a 6 WAR player you are a poor appraiser of talent. We are an 80 win team with .625 OPS at 1B, .668 OPS at 3B, .549 at SS, .672 at LF. So upgrading at 1B to .850 OPS, is better than upgrading to league average all around? League average at each position would be a total of about .450 OPS, while Fielder might get us .250-300. Pretty stupid to downgrade CF and SP plus spend $15 M. when Lee could likely give you equal production for half that and no loss of players.

[Stotle]

Who would rank as #1 now that several players have made their ascension?

Would Hellickson and McGee both rank higher?

I haven't poured through the MiL season yet -- been focused on the amateur scouting season (which ends in three weeks). I would imagine:

Mike Trout, OF, LAAA

Dom Brown, OF, PHI

Bryce Harper, OF, WAS

Matt Moore, RHP, TAM

Aroldis Chapmen, RHP, CIN

Jeremy Hellickson, RHP, TAM

Fred Freeman, 1B, ATL

Mike Moustakas, 3B, KAN

Eric Hosmer, 1B, KAN

John Lamb, LHP, TEX

Julio Teheran, RHP, ATL

would all be in the top 10 mix with Montero there maybe in the 6-10 range? I know there are some evaluators who believe Gary Sanchez (a Dominican catching signee in 2008 with the Yanks) will be better than Montero, though he has yet to progress past short season ball as far as I know.

[Stotle]

But from what I've heard he's a catcher who just can't catch.

From what I've heard that is true, but the Yankees are committed to stick with him there. No talk about moving him to LF at 1B is full.

[MrOrange82]

I said 3 Markakises. If you think he is a 2 War player and Fielder is a 6 WAR player you are a poor appraiser of talent. We are an 80 win team with .625 OPS at 1B, .668 OPS at 3B, .549 at SS, .672 at LF. So upgrading at 1B to .850 OPS, is better than upgrading to league average all around? League average at each position would be a total of about .450 OPS, while Fielder might get us .250-300. Pretty stupid to downgrade CF and SP plus spend $15 M. when Lee could likely give you equal production for half that and no loss of players.

I think trading for Fielder would be a horrible move, but I'm still not a fan of Lee, and I don't think the "premium bat" argument has been given enough credit. Looking around at the teams that made the playoffs this year, most have at least 1-2 players who are far, far superior to anything the Orioles have to throw out there. The Rays have Longoria and Crawford, the Yankees have...well, we all know who they have...and even if you want to point to the Giants as an example of a playoff team with a relative paucity of star power, you have to take the following into account: the Giants play in the NL West. The Orioles aren't going to make the playoffs out of the AL East with upgrades that are limited to the "35 year old D. Lee" range.

[Arthur_Bryant]

From what I've heard that is true, but the Yankees are committed to stick with him there. No talk about moving him to LF at 1B is full.

I won't be surprised to see him traded somewhere.