Tejada deal up to Angelos

[NoVaO]

I posted this in a different thread:

Pence, Hirsh, and Ensberg for Tejada

Pence, Hirsh, and Patton for Tejada

The bare minimum:

Pence, Hirsh/Patton, B- Prospect, and a C Prospect for Tejada

These are deals that would beat Santana and Aybar, if I had to decide. The reason is because of the number of prospects we get plus I believe we could ship Gibbons off in a deal to Anaheim for a package that includes Aybar.

The only deal I would include Conine in is the first two trades unless they wanted to add another prospect to the package.

BTW, Patton looks like he is going to be a total stud.. Great K rate, great BB/9, great HR rate, limits contact, left handed, young for his league, and consistent.

[utvolzac]

OK, I'm going to just start ignoring Everett whenever he comes up in a package from now on

So Tejada for Ensberg and Pence.... I don't really think that's good for us. Think about it, Ensberg is basically Tejada offensively if he is healthy and if he stays close to his career year last year. He is also a year older and plays a less important defensive position. Pence, IMO, is just not that great. I see him as Nolan Reimold, and I don't see Reimold turning into a great player (I hope I'm wrong).

Ensberg, Pence, and Patton is more of a fair deal.

I agree with you 100%. Everett is a non-factor. He upgrades nothing, IMO. We're just as good with Ensberg & Fahey as we are with Ensberg & Everett. And neither is a good option as an everday starter at SS.

If we're dealing with the Astros, guys like Lane & Everett should not be an option. Hirsch & Pence have to be in the deal. Otherwise, theres no incentive to replace Tejada's production with Ensberg's.

Hirsch is their only superstar top 20 prospect, (ranked 18), by comparison, Loewen is ranked #22. So he's basically a little better than Loewen. Not to mention that he's already 24 years old. He's dominating AAA, but so does Rich Hill from Chicago (26 years old) and Hill has gotten pummeled in the majors. I question why he has not be called up yet, since his AAA numbers are so dominate. Especially given that Clemens wasn't around for the entire beginning of the season.

To me he's not a slam dunk prospect like Wood or Santana. Pence reminds me of Reimold too. Up until this year he was not considered that great of a prospect (he was #6 in Houston's top 10 to start the season). Therefore Pence has to be included (at least make the odds of one of them making it better).

If 3 years down the road, all we got for Tejada was Ensberg. That is a terrible trade.

With Santana we know what we're getting. He not only has potential, but he's already proven he can play in the majors. Aybar isn't as good a prospect as Wood, but he's a consistent top 40-50 prospect and he performed well, when he was called up this season. He'd be starting now if not for OCab.

When it comes down to it, if I absolutely had to make a deal, I'd pick Santana + Aybar over anything Houston can offer. More upside and both can play right away.

[The Rick]

I agree with you 100%. Everett is a non-factor. He upgrades nothing, IMO. We're just as good with Ensberg & Fahey as we are with Ensberg & Everett. And neither is a good option as an everday starter at SS.

If we're dealing with the Astros, guys like Lane & Everett should not be an option. Hirsch & Pence have to be in the deal. Otherwise, theres no incentive to replace Tejada's production with Ensberg's.

Hirsch is their only superstar top 20 prospect, (ranked 18), by comparison, Loewen is ranked #22. So he's basically a little better than Loewen. Not to mention that he's already 24 years old. He's dominating AAA, but so does Rich Hill from Chicago (26 years old) and Hill has gotten pummeled in the majors. I question why he has not be called up yet, since his AAA numbers are so dominate. Especially given that Clemens wasn't around for the entire beginning of the season.

To me he's not a slam dunk prospect like Wood or Santana. Pence reminds me of Reimold too. Up until this year he was not considered that great of a prospect (he was #6 in Houston's top 10 to start the season). Therefore Pence has to be included (at least make the odds of one of them making it better).

If 3 years down the road, all we got for Tejada was Ensberg. That is a terrible trade.

With Santana we know what we're getting. He not only has potential, but he's already proven he can play in the majors. Aybar isn't as good a prospect as Wood, but he's a consistent top 40-50 prospect and he performed well, when he was called up this season. He'd be starting now if not for OCab.

When it comes down to it, if I absolutely had to make a deal, I'd pick Santana + Aybar over anything Houston can offer. More upside and both can play right away.

When you put it this way you're exactly right. But i'm not going to talk myself into wanting to have done the Santana/Aybar deal. Was it the best, surely. Will it be, most likely... but there's no reason to give into Stoneman when he could easily get away with giving us Wood. He's being stubborn in a seller's market, we'd be dumb to give in.

[utvolzac]

When you put it this way you're exactly right. But i'm not going to talk myself into wanting to have done the Santana/Aybar deal. Was it the best, surely. Will it be, most likely... but there's no reason to give into Stoneman when he could easily get away with giving us Wood. He's being stubborn in a seller's market, we'd be dumb to give in.

Your right, we shouldn't settle for something we don't want. But, they also can't keep pretending that they don't "have" to trade Tejada.

He's under contract for 3 years, but last off-season we saw the effects of what happens to Tejada's value if he is unhappy and starts demanding trades. None of the offers we recieved for Tejada last off-season were very good, not nearly as good as Santana + Aybar, IMO.

If the FO decide they want to keep Tejada, then they also have to decide to make a commitment to building around him. That means increasing the payroll and making sure they sign the top free agents this off-season. To do that, it'll likely mean the dreaded "overpaying", something we know Angelos isn't a fan of.

Santana + Aybar might not seem like enough, but compare it to the Tejada + bedard for Prior, Manny/Clement, Lidge, Lane, Everett type proposals we recieved when Miggy demanded a trade.

If they don't move him now at his peak value, the threat of Miggy demanding a trade again, is very real, IMO. And we won't be seeing these type of offers then.

[o'sman458202233]

I don't have a whole lot to say on the matter, only that I'd only trade Tejada if we get well over enough for him. Nothing has impressed me yet. I just wanted to be part of the largest post in OH history.

[haroldbainesfan]

I have to agree with many others on here in that we absolutely can not trade Tejada unless it is for Santana and Wood. Perhaps the O's are "overly interested" in the Rangers proposal in order to force the Angels to up their offer? If so it would be the smartest thing the O's have done since signing Tejada ironically.

Not sure if this has been posted yet in this superthread, but here is a good reason why a deal to the Angels MUST include Brandon Wood:

3. BRANDON WOOD, ss, Angels

"He's still going to get better. He looks like the next Cal Ripken to me."

--San Jose manager Lenn Sakata

ETA: 2007

Source: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/26660.html

[Elon Os Fan]

Hey Guys!!!

Just got back home and is wondering what is going on?

Can anyone give me a update on whats happening tonight?

Thanks!!

[dslats715]

Basically from what I've read since I got home is:

Angels are out.

Houston / Texas are in.

Meanwhile, I'm tired and excitement has left :'(

[Elon Os Fan]

Damn..

I really wanted to trade with the Angels.

Lets hope the Angels don't get Soriano.

[luismatos]

I am of the opinion that we don't "have" to trade Tejada. But, we ought to. I think we can get great value for him right now and the Angels particularly have a lot to offer. Santana, Wood, Adenhart, and Kendrick are four great prospects (I use the term loosely with Santana). If we trade Tejada and Conine for three of them or Tejada, Conine, Javy, RLo, Olson, and Cash for all four (with them MAYBE throwing in Aybar as well), I would not be upset...in fact I'd be ecstatic! Even if the three did not include Santana, although I would prefer that considering that we need some pitching...any at all after Bedard would be nice.

P.S. Why did we rush Johnson to the majors when we had Burres available instead?

Another thing, We could flip Aybar to someone for a lf'er with Kendrick becoming the 1bman

I'm drooling over the possible future of:

Bedard, Santana and 3 of Loewen, Erbe, Cabrera, Penn, and Adenhart

Ramon Hernandez, Kendrick, BRob, Wood, Rowell/Mora, Reimold, Patterson and Markakis with Gibbons Dhing

[orioles119]

Damn..

I really wanted to trade with the Angels.

Lets hope the Angels don't get Soriano.

Angels will be back in tomorrow...

[ejf1025]

I am of the opinion that we don't "have" to trade Tejada. But, we ought to. I think we can get great value for him right now and the Angels particularly have a lot to offer. Santana, Wood, Adenhart, and Kendrick are four great prospects (I use the term loosely with Santana). If we trade Tejada and Conine for three of them or Tejada, Conine, Javy, RLo, Olson, and Cash for all four (with them MAYBE throwing in Aybar as well), I would not be upset...in fact I'd be ecstatic! Even if the three did not include Santana, although I would prefer that considering that we need some pitching...any at all after Bedard would be nice.

P.S. Why did we rush Johnson to the majors when we had Burres available instead?

Another thing, We could flip Aybar to someone for a lf'er with Kendrick becoming the 1bman

I'm drooling over the possible future of:

Bedard, Santana and 3 of Loewen, Erbe, Cabrera, Penn, and Adenhart

Ramon Hernandez, Kendrick, BRob, Wood, Rowell/Mora, Reimold, Patterson and Markakis with Gibbons Dhing

The Angels final offer was Aybar and Santana. Do you really think that ANY combination of Conine, the Lopezes and Olson will be anything close to enough to add on just ONE of Wood, Adenhart and Kendrick let alone 2 or 3 of them? Come on. In one fell swoop they'll go from the best farm system in baseball to a mediocre one.

[Elon Os Fan]

Angels will be back in tomorrow...

Is this a prediction.

How r you so sure?

[Greg Pappas]

It is my experience that what gets reported in the final days/hours of MLB's trade deadline should often be taken with a grain of salt. I will not judge the Orioles FO until the deadline ends. Speculation is just that, speculation. Naturally in the meantime we all (me included) will discuss/debate the potential deals and ramifications of Oriole moves in the waning hours. This deadline seems more chock full of intrigue than any other in recent memory and it is my hope that we will be hearing something soon (my poor heart).

Try to rest your refresh finger, something tells me we will be exploding this thread tomorrow afternoon.

[orioles119]

Is this a prediction.

How r you so sure?

http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36664