Roch: AM isn't putting on a show for the fans by making offers he secretly hopes are turned down

[weams]

The Baltimore Orioles’ value fell 6 percent in the last year, sliding four spots on Forbes magazine’s annual list of the most valuable baseball franchises.

The Orioles are the 21st most valuable of 30 Major League Baseball franchises, worth an estimated $376 million, according to Forbes magazine’s annual ranking. Last year, Forbes ranked the Orioles No. 17 on its list with a value of $400 million.

Forbes: Orioles value falls to $376M

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/04/05/daily28.html

[weams]

I also think Angelos jokingly stated that 1 billion was his price.

[Enjoy Terror]

It has been public knowledge that Angelos does not want to sell the team and leave his legacy as the guy who ruined the Orioles. He is determined to fix the Orioles before he gets rid of them; the guy is going to have to die first.

[SoBo]

It is a brand new economic landscape out there. Leveraged purchases that we've seen over the past 10-15 years are not so easy to attain. When/if PA ever does sell, I would not be shocked to see the sale price floor set up for PA from MLB will be enforced. I.E. I don't know if PA could get more than $350mm for the franchise.

[TonySoprano]

I also think Agelos jokingly stated that 1 billion was his price.

If his lips were moving when he said it, it was a lie:D

[Peace21]

Do we even know if Peter still runs the team? Have his sons taken over ownership duties?

[ShaneDawg85]

Deep down, do you really think Angelos would sell this team? Even if the right offer came along?

I cannot see him doing it. Even if he really wants to, and I have to believe that the years of criticism have worn at him, I cannot see him doing it, because this team is his legacy. Yes, this team and what it has done under his tenure is his legacy. Forget his record as an attorney and all that he did with that, his generous contributions to the City of Baltimore, some publicly recognized and others not, his years as a public servant and political candidate, and everything else. Forget all of it. Fifty years from now when people look back on the life of Peter Angelos, the first thing they will look at is he was the owner of the Baltimore Orioles. People will say it was an unmistakable disaster, and deep down Angelos knows it.

So no, I cannot see Angelos selling the team. His pride and conscious won't let him do so, because doing so is admitting that his legacy is an uncontested failure. Come hell or high water, he's going to hang in as long as possible in the hope that his actions bring this team back to prominence. But unfortunately for him, and all of us, that simply isn't going to happen.

[TonySoprano]

Do we even know if Peter still runs the team? Have his sons taken over ownership duties?

Louie hasn't been involved at all. The last we heard from John, it was about a site for spring training, which his father had to clean up for him.

[Dipper9]

I cannot see him doing it. Even if he really wants to, and I have to believe that the years of criticism have worn at him, I cannot see him doing it, because this team is his legacy. Yes, this team and what it has done under his tenure is his legacy. Forget his record as an attorney and all that he did with that, his generous contributions to the City of Baltimore, some publicly recognized and others not, his years as a public servant and political candidate, and everything else. Forget all of it. Fifty years from now when people look back on the life of Peter Angelos, the first thing they will look at is he was the owner of the Baltimore Orioles. People will say it was an unmistakable disaster, and deep down Angelos knows it.

So no, I cannot see Angelos selling the team. His pride and conscious won't let him do so, because doing so is admitting that his legacy is an uncontested failure. Come hell or high water, he's going to hang in as long as possible in the hope that his actions bring this team back to prominence. But unfortunately for him, and all of us, that simply isn't going to happen.

Man this is a sad post! :002_ssad:

[sbauer]

As a life long Oriole fan, I really wish that we had a Billionaire owner with no debt that could just go toe to toe with the Yankees and win every time. I wish that the fan base just spent money like crazy for everything Oriole related and made this franchise a cash cow no matter what poor investments they made.

This is how I see the analogy, Angelos [good or bad] has set a budget for this team and insists on not losing money, indeed---with the investment of his vast fortune...he insist on seeing a return on it. MacPhail [good or bad] has taken that budget and talked with his manager Buck [GOOD!] and they have decided what things they need to do to have a team in 2011. I expect that when it is all done, they will do that. [good or bad]

The reality of the Orioles in this time slice is that they are a mid market team in a mid market town that has been poorly managed and has a middling farm system after years of mismanagement with an owner that is rich and has children and grand children and philanthropic goals.

You know we could be a team that mortgages its future to make the playoffs and ends up in Bankruptcy court. Back when Angelos bought this team in Bankruptcy court... at least he didn't do like our football team and move it. He is a Baltimore guy and you know...I am a Baltimore fan. An Oriole Fan. And I do think that this franchise is better run now than it has been any time since Pat Gillick ran it. I think we still spend every penny that is in our budget and you know what---I really enjoyed the last couple months of last season...like I enjoyed the first couple months of 2005.

Buck had the team playing well...even with Andy's budget replacement level players.

Maybe the guys we spend our budget money on in 2011 will do the same.

I'm sorry. I respect what you have to say, but to me, these are just lame excuses that losing teams use.

It's rare that I get worked up about something that the Orioles don't do. I don't want every free agent to come here. It's pretty obvious we need to stay within our means in order to succeed.

With that said, the Orioles are a business and as a business, you have to spend money in order to make money. If you can't spend the money required to run an MLB franchise, then it's time to sell the team. This team isn't a cash cow because this team stinks. It's pretty obvious that we're not going to bring in the money that teams in other markets can, but we're also not some hopeless train wreck in need of charitable donations. Of course you have a budget. What business doesn't? Their overall budget (free agency, scouting, development, draft, international), however, is clearly not getting it done.

From top to bottom, this team is poor. We don't spend what we should anywhere. It's not a free agency problem; it's an everything problem. We don't spend enough in the draft. Sure, we're in the top 10, but for a team that always has a top pick, we need to be better than that. Maybe that's a product of not having enough picks. Who knows. The point is we need to improve in the draft. We don't spend enough in the international market. We lose out to the Twins in the international market. Those lucky Twins must have a much greater market than us.

We're not asking this team to go into bankruptcy protection. We don't want A-Rod for 20+mm a year. We just want a team that's willing to do what it takes to field a competitive team.

I don't care how much money he gives away to the community. It's nice that he does, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the team. Again, it's nice that he kept this team in the city, but the team still sucks regardless. There shouldn't be some silly trade off. "Oh, Baltimore, here is this baseball team that I own. It's a bad team run like a dysfunctional family, but at least it's not in Illinois or in bankruptcy protection." No. That's not good enough for me. Sure, the end of last year was fun, but you know what would be better? Games that actually mattered after May!

I guess my point is simple: my frustrations with this team run deeper than free agency. Simply stating that people are frustrated because this team doesn't spend 100mm in free agency is completely missing the point and excusing the team from its real failures. This team simply doesn't do what it takes to win in almost every phase of the game. It's pathetic.

[Going Underground]

I guess Oriole fans are at least alive, Seems even the Sun blogs are getting out of hand. O's fans are pissed and I wonder if management even cares.

So this is not a call for you to limit your passion about the Orioles, Baltimore sports, my bad goatee or Jeff’s bald head.

Keep that up (especially cracks about Jeff’s head). But we need to tone down the language and completely eradicate the name-calling and personal slams. That includes the attacks on your fellow blog participants or on Andy MacPhail or Peter Angelos.

If you think a move or an offer was idiotic or moronic -- say that. We’re cool with that. If you think what I wrote was insipid, say that, too. If you want to spell MacPhail’s or Angelos’ names creatively, we can live with that.

But stop with calling people names. This isn’t third grade. I don’t want to read that someone is an idiot or a moron or stupid -- or worse. (We've had some people wishing for the death of others. Really? Over not signing a DH?) That’s not what this forum is about -- maybe other boards, but not here.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2010/12/the_idiot_police.html

[byrdz]

I never believed AM was putting on a show. What I do believe is that he expects to get great thrifty deals from every top FA. Low-balling to get that good value, or offering exactly what the FA is worth, shows that he doesn't have a realistic view about where the Orioles are currently. 'Overpay' isn't in his vocabulary.

Now, for the record, I wouldn't overpay for Dunn. I think that you offer a player like him even money and see if he takes it. There's really only a few guys in every FA class that you overpay big money for and Dunn, as versatile as he is, isn't one of them. Which brings me to my other problem with AM. Is he even looking at the best of the class?? (rhetorical)

[El Gordo]

If we were looking for a long term solution at DH then we missed the boat on Dunn. Somehow I don't think that DH is a primary need. There are no long term 1B FA options available this year. If you are looking for a RH short term option, Lee is the best, and if you have to settle for a LH option, Pena is better than Dunn. He is a better defender, gives similar numbers, and requires a shorter contarct for less money.

[SrMeowMeow]

I think you're underestimating the importance of length of contract to these players.

There's no harm in placing a value on a player and making an offer. When the offer was made, I'm sure AM had no idea what the rest of the market would bear for Dunn. Given what he does and what he was making last year, it wasn't a lowball offer on it's own valition.

Obviously, Kenny Williams overpaid for Dunn - to Williams, his bat is worth 4 years and $56 million. To MacPhail it wasn't.

This doesn't make sense. I could see maybe 4 years at 12M trumping 3 years at 15M, but nobody - nobody - will take LESS money to work MORE. Dunn would literally be paid less for four years of play than he would have been for three years of play per the Nationals offer. It was a stupid offer.

[TradeAngelos]

Just more lip service from the company mouthpiece.

Roch knows who signs his paycheck.

$40 million was a JOKE and like someone else said if Andy didn't know that we are in a LOT more trouble than I thought.

Andy isn't that stupid, but apparently he thinks the fanbase is trying to sell us that bill of goods.