Roch: AM isn't putting on a show for the fans by making offers he secretly hopes are turned down

[Hank Scorpio]

No matter how you want to phrase it, the fact of the matter is that AM continues to mis-read the market and continues to offer contracts to players he wants that fall well short of where they need to be.

This is 100% true, and it's a disconcerting if not unsurprising given MacPhail's inability to sign free agents historically.

I just don't see MacPhail as the type of guy to significantly overpay for someone.

[Dr. FLK]

I'm sure MacPhail looked at Dunn and saw half a player in that Dunn doesn't play defense. Now obviously the other half is quite proficient - but I would imagine (and this is just me pontificating) that it's difficult for AM to justify giving a DH $56MM over 4 years.

Then don't make a bad offer. You aren't required to make offers to all top FA. And, in some cases, it's probably better to not make an offer at all then to do this. How many times are we going to see him make low offers to make sure everyone knows how he values top FAs?

[weams]

Would you seriously work an extra year at another job for less money than at your current job, all things work-wise being equal? Not to mention that you could have made more money in less time at your current job.

For sure, a guy who doesn't enjoy the game of baseball wouldn't. I agree.

[Hooded Viper]

I agree with what you are saying here, but I just don't understand why they let out that they made an offer to Dunn.

In today's market, a 4/40 offer is bordering on ridiculous. I think that type of offer gives the impression to agents and other players that we aren't serious.

I think that some moves will be coming up shortly and I'm hopeful that they make an impact on this team. I just don't understand the rationale of this Dunn announcement.

This is my biggest complaint. This is placating to the fans and if they were going to say anything then just say we made an offer and leave it at that. Terms are not necessary.

[TonySoprano]

That's Apples and Oranges, Tony... but I get the point.

It'd be a different strain of pissing and moaning around here if it was reported that MacPhail didn't bother to even extend him an offer. Hell, people would be whining about him not doing enough wining and dining if he had offered more money and Dunn landed in Chicago. We've seen all of this BS in the past.

I'm just sick of the whining.

There are still plenty of opportunities for AM to upgrade the roster. If he hasn't done that come February, I'll be right there along with everyone else.

While my offseason isn't ruined over Dunn, it irks me the way we went about it. I'd much rather lose out the way we did on Martinez, it was a respectable offer. Go in, make a statement, or stay on the bench. Don't go about things in a half-arse fashion

Whining? I should send one of my associates to visit you, to help you with your...vocabulary;)

[Moose Milligan]

Hey, it's like Roch is directly addressing wingnut conspiracy theorists on the OH.

[Hank Scorpio]

While my offseason isn't ruined over Dunn, it irks me the way we went about it. I'd much rather lose out the way we did on Martinez, it was a respectable offer. Go in, make a statement, or stay on the bench. Don't go about things in a half-arse fashion

Whining? I should send one of my associates to visit you, to help you with your...vocabulary;)

Come on now... you know better than to think my ire is pointed in your direction.

It's wiiiiiiiiiiiidespread, mostly from people who never post here. They wait until something like this happens, open an account and start threads about how they're "done" with the organization.

Please. I'm tired of all the Whambulance calls.

[Singleton]

No matter how you want to phrase it, the fact of the matter is that AM continues to mis-read the market and continues to offer contracts to players he wants that fall well short of where they need to be.

I'm confused by your post since I was under the impression you were pleased we didn't get Dunn.

I think lots of GMs put initial offers in on players to get a sense of the reaction of the player and agent. When AM (and other GMs) heard that Dunn would a get a LOT more, I imagien they shrugged and bowed out.

The size of the initial offer signals the player as to the team's interest. In this case, i think it signals not a huge amount of interest on our part. In Vmart's case, I think it signaled strong interest. i doubt the offer to Dunn was a huge distraction to other moves we could make so the angst (other posters) about "why bother" seems no biggie to me.

Given you thought this was the right move, I don't understand your complaint on this particular issue.

On the other hand, again, more players going off the board and we have plenty of holes with no solutions...yet. It is...take your pick...nerve wracking or disheartening or both.

I still think we end up with Reynolds and one of the many discussed first base options.

I will not be doing cartwheels but I also will not be grabbing my pitchfork either.

[NewMarketSean]

Hey, it's like Roch is directly addressing wingnut conspiracy theorists on the OH.

The belief that the O's throw out token lowball offers to cover their asses is not something that only the OH believes. It's common amongst most O's fans.

[TGO]

Hey, it's like Roch is directly addressing wingnut conspiracy theorists on the OH.

I think he gets a lot of that crap in his comments section, too.

[clapdiddy]

Hey, it's like Roch is directly addressing wingnut conspiracy theorists on the OH.

The only problem is that now he's given more ammunition!

[TonySoprano]

Come on now... you know better than to think my ire is pointed in your direction.

It's wiiiiiiiiiiiidespread, mostly from people who never post here. They wait until something like this happens, open an account and start threads about how they're "done" with the organization.

Please. I'm tired of all the Whambulance calls.

Just having fun with you, Hank:D

[Sports Guy]

I'm confused by your post since I was under the impression you were pleased we didn't get Dunn.

I think lots of GMs put initial offers in on players to get a sense of the reaction of the player and agent. When AM (and other GMs) heard that Dunn would a get a LOT more, I imagien they shrugged and bowed out.

The size of the initial offer signals the player as to the team's interest. In this case, i think it signals not a huge amount of interest on our part. In Vmart's case, I think it signaled strong interest. i doubt the offer to Dunn was a huge distraction to other moves we could make so the angst (other posters) about "why bother" seems no biggie to me.

Given you thought this was the right move, I don't understand your complaint on this particular issue.

On the other hand, again, more players going off the board and we have plenty of holes with no solutions...yet. It is...take your pick...nerve wracking or disheartening or both.

I still think we end up with Reynolds and one of the many discussed first base options.

I will not be doing cartwheels but I also will not be grabbing my pitchfork either.

Whether I like it or not, the bottom line is the Orioles continue to target players and continue to out offers out there that fall well short of what it takes to get them. That is just a fact.

I am happy that it has worked out that way but it doesn't change things.

[Hank Scorpio]

Just having fun with you, Hank:D

"We good."

I'm growing to despise the offseason and all "Hot Stove" happenings.

[ChaosLex]

mikezpen and Roch are apparently BFF's.

Per Roch:I'll eliminate one theory right away: President of baseball operations Andy MacPhail isn't putting on a show for the fans by making offers that he secretly hopes are turned down. "

Roch, that is exactly what they do, year after year after year after year. The idea is to bamboozle as many fans as possible and, particularly, to bamboozle the media. And in the case of Baltimore's lap dog, Angelos-excusing sportswriting cast, they've been wildly successful.

You know as well as I do that the low-ball Dunn offer was a joke-an insult. Martinez might have been signed had they offered a fifth year.Instead, they came in with an offer that was -gosh darn-just short....again.The Orioles have to overpay to get good players, not come in just short.Yet we've had the same sorry excuses and the same miserable failures for eight years. Don't you get it? Angelos doesn't CARE if his product is any good!

Refusal to offer arbitration to Koji was all Angelos. His giant ego wouldn't allow his team to lose in an arbitration hearing. Koji might have won couple million more than the O's were offering so the Os declined arbitration, this depriving themselves of a closer AND a draft pick as well.Brilliant, don't you think?

You people of the press should be calling for Angelos to sell the team and be hammering him at every turn for his ruination of a once great franchise. Instead you make a lot of lame excuses and churn out endless conjecture over the next free agent the cheapskate Orioles will blunder away.

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So you think offering $40 million was a way to fool the fans? Really? And that Angelos was afraid of losing to Koji in arbitration? Have you seen the Orioles record in arbitration? And didn't I write that the Orioles have to be aggressive? You think I was defending their offer to Dunn? You're a real bright guy. As for your childish little insults, do me a favor and talk to me one-on-one instead of hiding behind mommy's laptop. I'll be at FanFest, I'll be in Sarasota for 7 weeks, I'm at 81 home games. But let me guess, you'll somehow be unable to find me, right? Go back to watching cartoons and let the grown-ups talk. - Roch