Roch: AM isn't putting on a show for the fans by making offers he secretly hopes are turned down

[Big Keys Fan]

I'm not saying Dunn was the perfect fit. I'm saying why bid at all if you're going to make such a pointlessly insignificant offer?

So the team that knows and understands his ability offers 11.6/yr and the O's offer a longer contract at 10 its insignificant? Guess my business sense is off, to me these are essentially the same contract IMO and CHW blew both teams out of the water with there offer. Would you have given Thome 15+ last year at 37? That's my point, you have to look past year 1 and 2 and think about year 4 where its all back loaded !

[eddie83]

Man, what are you talking about? 4/40 is "double the contract" of 2/20 in only a very arbitrary sense - you make it sound like a raise when it's clearly not. And no, it doesn't make any sense to offer a little below everyone else for a free agent on the off chance they take it, because they never will. The Orioles are not the kind of team right now that might intrigue a free agent into taking a discount. It might be zero-risk, but it's also pointless.

So being guaranteed 10 million a year for two more years isn't more money?

A 2/20 and 4/40 are the same to you.

[weams]

Louie hasn't been involved at all. The last we heard from John, it was about a site for spring training, which his father had to clean up for him.

George was gonna give the Yankees to his son in law rather than his sons.

John is gonna run the team (who will be the owners I could only guess), but I see no sense of Peter passing the torch before he passes on.

[weams]

I agree with all of this.

I'm sure at the time if MacPhail knew Dunn would end up getting 4/56, he wouldn't have bothered.

I am sure Andy was shocked at the number he was getting. He was spot on with Martinez. I am sure he will be in the neighborhood on Konerko. You can get a heck of a lot of DH for 10 million a year.

Jack Cust would not hit 38 homers with 600 at bats, but a .390 ish OBP is kinda in the "75% of Dunn" range and he would be cheap.

I just don't think Andy values Dunn like Chicago did. I wonder what the other bids were.

[SrMeowMeow]

So being guaranteed 10 million a year for two more years isn't more money?

A 2/20 and 4/40 are the same to you.

But the baseline isn't 2/20...and Dunn signed 2/20 in a very different economy.

What exactly are you trying to argue here? That the 2/20 deal makes the 4/40 offer reasonable?

[eddie83]

But the baseline isn't 2/20...and Dunn signed 2/20 in a very different economy.

What exactly are you trying to argue here? That the 2/20 deal makes the 4/40 offer reasonable?

They made him an offer they thought was reasonable for a DH. 4/40 is 20 million more than his last contract. What was the harm in offering it? They didn't want him so badly to throw alot more at him. It is pretty evident he wasn't some priority that they had to have. He had a value to them and it was what it was. Considering the criticism MacPhail has gotten from some fans here and the organization as a whole the last 13 years why in the world would he lowball someone? What does he gain?

[Big Keys Fan]

But the baseline isn't 2/20...and Dunn signed 2/20 in a very different economy.

What exactly are you trying to argue here? That the 2/20 deal makes the 4/40 offer reasonable?

Dont know if you are aware the economy isnt much different then it was 1-2 years ago, especially in baseball. Economy NEVER effects top tier FA's as it didnt in this case. Yes a 4/40 is a fair market value. Not sure of your rationale on this one... Please explain to me how in the world that CHW did not way over spend for a a DH/butcher 1B? BTW... he took a pay cut by almost 5/yr to sign a 2 /20 (8 yr 1 12 yr 2) deal with the Nats and has never made the money that CHW spent on him... out of his prime... just saying! For that matter the OH really has no clue how that 40 was structured and if any incentives were involved. So to assume that reading a newspaper or a rumor site that we are able to disect what was actully offered outside of numbers is crazy!

[byrdz]

Didn't realize so many ppl wanted Dunn on this team. Maybe it's because he transformed the Nationals into a contender.

[weams]

Didn't realize so many ppl wanted Dunn on this team. Maybe it's because he transformed the Nationals into a contender.

Ha Ha Ha... you made a funny!

[byrdz]

When Ortiz (closest comp I can think of) scored his 4/52 contract waaaay back in 2007 he was regularly putting up 6 WAR seasons like it was child's play. (Yes I brought out the WAR guns.) Dunn, who just got more than Ortiz in his prime, is lucky to crack 3 WAR in any given season!!

[SrMeowMeow]

Dont know if you are aware the economy isnt much different then it was 1-2 years ago, especially in baseball. Economy NEVER effects top tier FA's as it didnt in this case. Yes a 4/40 is a fair market value. Not sure of your rationale on this one... Please explain to me how in the world that CHW did not way over spend for a a DH/butcher 1B? BTW... he took a pay cut by almost 5/yr to sign a 2 /20 (8 yr 1 12 yr 2) deal with the Nats and has never made the money that CHW spent on him... out of his prime... just saying! For that matter the OH really has no clue how that 40 was structured and if any incentives were involved. So to assume that reading a newspaper or a rumor site that we are able to disect what was actully offered outside of numbers is crazy!

I really have no idea what you're talking about here...

[Capn Vivi]

You're either all-in or you're not. If you're not, then send that message to your fans. Be straight and say, "I don't think we're going to do very much and here's the plan going forward." But if you are in it, stand up and show you are.

Sigh.

My only complaint regarding MacPhail and all these "offers" without any result is that he seems disconnected and slow in comparison to the impression the fans received. With the signing of Showalter and our team's glaring holes at positions where there is an abundance of options in the market this year, you'd think MacPhail wouldn't still be looking for bargains.

Put your money where your mouth is. Make it count, or don't bother. I'm reading MacPhail's 4/40 offer as something like: "we'll have Dunn for $10m a year, but we don't want him so bad that we'd pay more than that."

[Big Keys Fan]

I really have no idea what you're talking about here...

The economy never effects the top tier FA's on the market.

Off the top of my head Tex,CC,Burnett,Holliday,F Rodriguez all got 15+/yr avg saleries IIRC

That isnt even touching some of the other mega contracts given to premium talent.

The economy really has no effect on how GM's value there top talent! With the good GM's money will not get in the way of bringing home championships! With that said there is there is definitley a smart way to spend your money and the CHW's just did not do that is this case... IMO!

[byrdz]

I'm reading MacPhail's 4/40 offer as something like: "we'll have Dunn for $10m a year, but we don't want him so bad that we'd pay more than that."

See, I don't see anything wrong with that reasoning in the case of Dunn, and other players like him. Offer him what you think he's worth and see if he bites. If he doesn't there's a few other players just as valuable on the market. It's when he does it with the upper tier players like (dare I say) Tex that it bugs me. Dunn isn't worth much more than 4/40 IMO, and if he is, I'd like someone to prove it.

[SrMeowMeow]

The economy never effects the top tier FA's on the market.

Off the top of my head Tex,CC,Burnett,Holliday,F Rodriguez all got 15+/yr avg saleries IIRC

That isnt even touching some of the other mega contracts given to premium talent.

The economy really has no effect on how GM's value there top talent! With the good GM's money will not get in the way of bringing home championships! With that said there is there is definitley a smart way to spend your money and the CHW's just did not do that is this case... IMO!

So wait, Dunn is or is not a top tier FA? Also, everything you said is wrong.