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GoldGlove21 All-Star

GoldGlove21

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We are losing because of bad business decisions and this team has gotten lucky in the past. We claimed Guthrie off of waivers and just landed Reynolds and Hardy when their team basically gave them away for one reliever with above average stuff and a few throw ins. The Orioles offered Koji a chance right off the bat and that ended up as a good investment. The Orioles had the first crack at Pena and didn't even invite him to camp. They were bidding against themselves for the services of Gregg, Lee and Guerrero and those contracts MIGHT have hampered some of our flexibility when it comes to signing some of our overdrafts.

We are a bad team guys and you can't blame all of that on Roberts injuries and the young pitching struggling. The plan was doomed to fail because four young starters were thrust into the same lineup. I am cool with making that decision, but those guys have to be allowed to pitch through their issues. Sending them back and forth between the minors and the majors isn't going to help IMO. If the Orioles are not going to really go all in, then all they did by extending Hardy is pay for a place-holder for a last place team. Sure they can deal Hardy again, but it is not like he is a lock to be maybe the only viable middle infielder on the market at the time, free from injury or performing at his current level. The Orioles likely held on to Guthrie too long to even justify dealing him for prospects at this point. The market for relievers happens to be substantial, but they are a lot of them available as well. That may drive down the price of someone like Uehara, but he is still a guy who could have been traded with Guthrie or Hardy to give a team just enough reason to include that better prospect that you really wanted.

I do not feel good about sending what is likely the same core of player out there in 2011 at a higher base salary. This team as designed come the 2012 season will need an additional $15M-$25M of team salary to compete IMO and that will still depend on the young pitchers taking a huge step forward. The Orioles should have tried to move Guthrie and Uehara to the Red months ago for Alonso, Boxberger and one additional part. Alonso could have been the starting first baseman had the Orioles not landed a viable option in the 2012 offseason. It also would have saved this team $11M or so off of next years payroll. I am ok with extending Hardy, but that guy could have probably landed a pitcher from a team like the Giants. I wonder what would have happened if the Orioles offered Hardy to the Giants for Belt or Wheeler straight up. I just think that addition by subtraction would make sense in terms of dealing some of these guys.

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GoldGlove21 All-Star

GoldGlove21

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There aren't any no brainers outside of Fielder and that isn't happening.

I agree and none of that is going to matter of the young starters do not get it together. I think the Orioles would be crazy to plan for 4/5's of their starting 2012 rotation to consist of Arrieta, Mattusz, Britton, Tillman, or Bergesen. I would bring in at least one more starter and would even consider bringing in two if I could. Britton and Matusz/Arrieta would likely be the the last two starters. I really like Arrieta, but I think I would make him a relief pitcher if we had enough good starting pitching. I like his mentality and I think he could close.

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andrewrickli Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

andrewrickli

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BUMP.....

With all the talk of how Duquette could try to make a big splash, as he has done in the past, I thought I would bump this thread for people to remember just how much we have committed to next year.

It will be with a pitcher. Buck has said it, that pitching will help this team win. Hell, we all have said it. Bucks teams in the past in his 2nd year have added a big starting pitcher to the rotation. The question is how and who? Trade or FA? Cain, Darvish, Wilson, Shields, Latos

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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I think the biggest splash that Duquette would make is to sign Jones and Wieters to long term contracts. None of the free agents or trades will come close to those deals. I look for him to sign one, maybe two, starters from the Far East. When he was with Boston he signed three from that area. Additionally he may trade for Koji. He will sign a backup catcher and someone to compete with Davis at third. Those are my guesses.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Keep in mind Manny was such an integral part of the Red Sox that they put him on irrevocable waivers hoping for salary relief before they won in '04.

Manny's behavior, not his bat put him on waivers. He still was a huge part of the Red Sox reaching the playoffs as Fielder could be for Baltimore...

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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I think the biggest splash that Duquette would make is to sign Jones and Wieters to long term contracts. None of the free agents or trades will come close to those deals. I look for him to sign one, maybe two, starters from the Far East. When he was with Boston he signed three from that area. Additionally he may trade for Koji. He will sign a backup catcher and someone to compete with Davis at third. Those are my guesses.

This is the MacPhail way of thinking that we are done with.

No reason Duquette couldn't sign Wilson and/or Fielder and extend Jones and Wieters.

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nevadaO Hangout Grand Counsel

nevadaO

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No reason Duquette couldn't sign Wilson and/or Fielder and extend Jones and Wieters.

Just like every year, you are really setting yourself up for disappointment. I wish you wouldn't because we all see what it does to you.

The only real way we are going to get talent on this club this off season is through trades and/or signing international players.

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GoldGlove21 All-Star

GoldGlove21

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Manny's behavior, not his bat put him on waivers. He still was a huge part of the Red Sox reaching the playoffs as Fielder could be for Baltimore...

I probably would lose all respect for Fielder if he left the Brewers to come play for the Orioles. It would mean two things, Fielder was all about taking the most money down to the penny and that he didn't care about winning. He wouldn't be joining the Orioles to turn the franchise around. The guy is great and whatever the Orioles offer Fielder he will get more somewhere else. The guy is not coming here and I am not sure there is ANYTHING the Orioles can do about it.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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I probably would lose all respect for Fielder if he left the Brewers to come play for the Orioles. It would mean two things, Fielder was all about taking the most money down to the penny and that he didn't care about winning. He wouldn't be joining the Orioles to turn the franchise around. The guy is great and whatever the Orioles offer Fielder he will get more somewhere else. The guy is not coming here and I am not sure there is ANYTHING the Orioles can do about it.

Great attitude to have. Lose all respect because he'd come to play for the Orioles?

Why can't the Orioles win?

Show some freaking pride in your team!

Man I am sick of heaing this "losing" attitude...

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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I probably would lose all respect for Fielder if he left the Brewers to come play for the Orioles. It would mean two things, Fielder was all about taking the most money down to the penny and that he didn't care about winning. He wouldn't be joining the Orioles to turn the franchise around. The guy is great and whatever the Orioles offer Fielder he will get more somewhere else. The guy is not coming here and I am not sure there is ANYTHING the Orioles can do about it.
Boras is going to let the market play out. He is not going to get Prince signed before Jan. The market will be soft. Offers will be in the area of 5/125 M, as they should be. If the O's sign a major SP before then, he could well be interested in taking their offer, if it is by far the most money. I can see PA going at least 6/150 M for him. Higher if the Gnats challenge that figure.
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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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Great attitude to have. Lose all respect because he'd come to play for the Orioles?

Why can't the Orioles win?

Show some freaking pride in your team!

Man I am sick of heaing this "losing" attitude...

And it is getting old that you keep attacking posts where people have no optimism for the Orioles, which is quite warranted.

This "losing" attitude is here because of the last 14 years. It is kind of hard to undo.

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