I think this winter (maybe sooner), it will be time to pick a direction

[osfan83]

2014

C: Wieters

1B:

2B:

SS: Machado

3B: Schoop

RF: Markakis

CF: Jones

LF: Reimold

SP: Matusz

SP: Britton

SP: Arrietta

SP: Bundy

SP: Bundy

CL: Johnson

RP: Klein

RP: Schrader

Depending on how 1B, 2B, DH are augmented, you can win with this roster. Only Jones is not team-controlled (yet) for 2014, and it's the last year for Wieters and Matusz (if I'm calculating service time correctly). Could switch Schoop to 2B, and hope for Esposito at 3B.

2014 is a long way away. Recent history has taught us that; one of the Bundy's will have a season ending injury setting him back, Schoop will fail to advance and not make it to the bigs, and Machado may be a good SS, but maybe not an all star.

I'm sure in 2009 Nat's fans had Strasburg penciled in for 20 wins in 2011.

[Fan4Life]

Let it be recorded. The OriolesHangout gave up on the 2011 season on June 10th with the O's 4 games out of the Wild Card.

1. There is no consideration that BRob may return to the team like he did last year. Only this year he may return to a .500 team and try to boost it to the playoffs.

2. The Hangout gives up before they see the impact of Matusz returning to join Guthrie, Britton and Arrieta.

3. The Hangout gives up even though the bullpen is pitching well including Gregg, Koji, Johnson and Accardo.

4. The Hangout gives up with Jones establishing himself in the 3 hole in the lineup.

5. The Hangout just plain gives up of Markakis doing anything this year.

6. The Hangout gives up as Reynolds and Hardy are surging.

7. The Hangout gives up as Wieters shows he is the best catcher in he AL East.

8. The Hangout doesn't value Reimold contribution in left even though his numbers since his return are good.

9. The Hangout gives up before Lee and Reynolds face the NL pitchers they are familar with.

I am sorry I can't join the mutiny. Not at 4 games out. Not until we see more. You all may be prophets and be proven right but I just don't think it time to give up on the talent on this team. I will wait to make a judgement.

Go O's.

You can post this thread about every 5 days after we've won 4 in a row and then 8 days later after having lost 4 in a row and won 4 in a row. This team isn't hitting on many cylinders. The teams they're barely beating aren't good teams and they've been handled fairly easily by all the good teams. I suppose when Monday comes we'll know if anything has changed. No BRob and no Lee doesn't help. The pitching needs to step up against quality opponents.

[SrMeowMeow]

I'd be happy if we dropped 45M this offseason on Pujols and Fielder to be our 3/4. I would love that. That would make us an instant contender. I just don't think we have the resources, in part because we spent them in other places that aren't looking so smart right now. We're starting to see the opportunity cost of things like "it's worth it for Brian Roberts to be an Oriole his whole career."

[Fan4Life]

I'd be happy if we dropped 45M this offseason on Pujols and Fielder to be our 3/4.

$52M is closer to the number and I'm sure you'd gladly pay that also.

[Enjoy Terror]

A large problem with the Orioles is that they don't have a "face". There's no player since Cal Ripken that really resonates with anyone as being an Oriole.

When the Rays got Longoria, that team suddenly became the bees knees. Strasburg fever stretched nationwide for the Nats. Where is our Pujols? Our Lincecum? Our Halladay? Our Brian Wilson Beard? Our Manny dreads?

We need that kind of player to even consider competing. This team doesn't have that Five Win player that makes a difference.

[SrMeowMeow]

$52M is closer to the number and I'm sure you'd gladly pay that also.

I'd take the under on 52M but either way, if we had 52M in payroll room, I would gladly allocate it on those two.

[wildcard]

Frobby mentioned BP mathematically determines we have a 2% chance. That's a 49:1 shot. It's fun to hope but most fans are going to keep their money in their wallet until those odds are increased.

If you have no problem with discussions about building a champion team then don't tell others that they have committed "mutiny" or have "given up on the team we have been loyal to all these years" when others engage in those discussions and consider all options.

Building a team that's a 49:1 long shot and then saying we shouldn't at least consider certain methods of improvement because this team has a chance to win it all... that's a loser's attitude.

I don't know where this 2% chance comes from but let's talk reality.

1. In 2009 the Rockies were 5 back in the wild card race on June the 10th. There were 8 teams better then them in just the wild card race (Doesn't count the division leaders). They won the wild card by 4 games. They picked up 9 games.

2. In 2009, The Twins were 4 back in the division race on June 10th. They won the division by one game. The picked up 5 games.

3. In 2009, the LAA were 3.5 back on June 10th for the division title. They won by 10. The pick up 13.5 games.

I did very little research to find these three examples. If there are three in the last two years it stands to reason there are bunch more. I don't know what the 2% represents but this makes me feel the the O's are still in the wild card race.

[tilgaham]

A large problem with the Orioles is that they don't have a "face". There's no player since Cal Ripken that really resonates with anyone as being an Oriole.

When the Rays got Longoria, that team suddenly became the bees knees. Strasburg fever stretched nationwide for the Nats. Where is our Pujols? Our Lincecum? Our Halladay? Our Brian Wilson Beard? Our Manny dreads?

We need that kind of player to even consider competing. This team doesn't have that Five Win player that makes a difference.

Manny doesn't wear dreadlocks. They'd get in the way of his gold glove plays at short, and weigh him down when he does 25 HR trots around the MLB in 2014.

[LookinUp]

I don't know where this 2% chance comes from but let's talk reality.

1. In 2009 the Rockies were 5 back in the wild card race on June the 10th. There were 8 teams better then them in just the wild card race (Doesn't count the division leaders). They won the wild card by 4 games. They picked up 9 games.

2. In 2009, The Twins were 4 back in the division race on June 10th. They won the division by one game. The picked up 5 games.

3. In 2009, the LAA were 3.5 back on June 10th for the division title. They won by 10. The pick up 13.5 games.

I did very little research to find these three examples. If there are three in the last two years it stands to reason there are bunch more. I don't know what the 2% represents but this makes me feel the the O's are still in the wild card race.

What you're saying is, you believe in the talent on this team to make runs like those teams. Right?

[TakebackOPACY]

Wildcard, you believe in this team. Fine. I promise you I'll be rooting for this team. My issue with your initial posts in this thread isn't your over the top optimism. You're welcome to your view. My issue is this: Don't tell other posters they've committed mutiny or given up and been disloyal to their team when they discuss their opinions on how to get the O's to a championship level. You owe some people an apology and it's not because you're optimistic while facing long odds. A handful of posters were discussing their opinions and you declared, essentially, that all of Orioles Hangout has declared that nothing good can possibly happen in the remainder of the 2011 season.

[wildcard]

What you're saying is, you believe in the talent on this team to make runs like those teams. Right?

I look at it this way. Matusz, Guthrie, Britton and Arrieta are four solid starters. On a normal night they will hold the other team to 3 runs or less.

The pen has settled in with Johnson, Koji and Gregg being very solid. Accardo is doing well and Simonand Jaku may be valuable. Jaku could move to the pen when Bergy or Tillman get themselves straight.

So the pitching is there.

Jones, Wieters, Reynolds, and Hardy are the core of the offense right now. Reimold has hit well but has to prove he can continue to do well. But we has seen him do well in 2009. The talent is there.

Will Markakis and Roberts turn their seasons around. Nick is a talent. Roberts was very good when he returned last year.

That leaves Vlad, Lee and Scott. Lee is just learning the AL. He will get a chance to hit NL pitchers soon. That will tell us alot. Vlad is hitting for average but not power. Toss a coin on whether he finds his power but he should continue to hit for average. Scott's injury bothers me. I see Reimold taking his spot in left. I could be wrong. But Reimold is hitting and Scott is hurt.

So is the talent there? Yes, I think it is. Will it come together. I don't know. I hope so.

[The Rick]

I look at it this way. Matusz, Guthrie, Britton and Arrieta are four solid starters. On a normal night they will hold the other team to 3 runs or less.

The pen has settled in with Johnson, Koji and Gregg being very solid. Accardo is doing well and Simonand Jaku may be valuable. Jaku could move to the pen when Bergy or Tillman get themselves straight.

So the pitching is there.

Jones, Wieters, Reynolds, and Hardy are the core of the offense right now. Reimold has hit well but has to prove he can continue to do well. But we has seen him do well in 2009. The talent is there.

Will Markakis and Roberts turn their seasons around. Nick is a talent. Roberts was very good when he returned last year.

That leaves Vlad, Lee and Scott. Lee is just learning the AL. He will get a chance to hit NL pitchers soon. That will tell us alot. Vlad is hitting for average but not power. Toss a coin on whether he finds his power but he should continue to hit for average. Scott's injury bothers me. I see Reimold taking his spot in left. I could be wrong. But Reimold is hitting and Scott is hurt.

So is the talent there? Yes, I think it is. Will it come together. I don't know. I hope so.

So basically you're saying that everything has to go right and all the stars have to align? As much as I'd love that to happen, it's not going to.

Holding on for that tiny glimmer of hope could potentially do us a disservice to our long term plans.

That said, TB was still able to trade Garza in the off-season vs. the Deadline, but as SG pointed out, the rule of thumb if you just have more leverage and can get a little more at the deadline.

[Fan4Life]

I'd take the under on 52M but either way, if we had 52M in payroll room, I would gladly allocate it on those two.

We lose

Lee $7M

Vlad $5M

Gonz $6M

-----------

$18M

$80-$18M+arbitration increases($6M?)+$52M=$120M roughly?

If only we could play with Redsox money at $145M-ish then we could add Felix Hernandez as the TOR.

[wildcard]

Wildcard, you believe in this team. Fine. I promise you I'll be rooting for this team. My issue with your initial posts in this thread isn't your over the top optimism. You're welcome to your view. My issue is this: Don't tell other posters they've committed mutiny or given up and been disloyal to their team when they discuss their opinions on how to get the O's to a championship level. You owe some people an apology and it's not because you're optimistic while facing long odds. A handful of posters were discussing their opinions and you declared, essentially, that all of Orioles Hangout has declared that nothing good can possibly happen in the remainder of the 2011 season.

You want as apolopy. You got it. I am sorry to anyone that I offended with a board statement that the whole Hangout gave up the O's. However, I think those who have given up on the O's or said they have zero chance are premature at best and flat out wrong at worse. If three teams in 2009 made in to the playoffs by making up more ground then O's have to then its too early to count the O's out.

TakebackOPACY, I have said repeatedly I have no problem with posters crafting ways to improve the team. I think you are wrong to say I do. Does that mean you owe me an apology? I'll let you figure that out. I just think those that have given up on the season should wait a while and see what happens before putting a nail in the coffin.

Go O's.

[wildcard]

So basically you're saying that everything has to go right and all the stars have to align? As much as I'd love that to happen, it's not going to.

Holding on for that tiny glimmer of hope could potentially do us a disservice to our long term plans.

That said, TB was still able to trade Garza in the off-season vs. the Deadline, but as SG pointed out, the rule of thumb if you just have more leverage and can get a little more at the deadline.

We will know a lot more by mid July if not sooner.