It's time for Andy to get "MacPhailed"

[TonySoprano]

Toronto: Yeah, I think so. I think if they were in the Central or West in either league they'd have a great chance of making the playoffs this year.

Tampa: Right, they are currently (and have been since '08) one of the 5 best teams in baseball. Just like NY, and Boston. 54 games against those teams, with 27 on the road, would be difficult for any team to deal with.

This year, quickly off the top of my head, besides NY, TB, and Boston, I'd put the Phillies, Braves, Reds, Brewers, Cards, Giants, Rangers, and Indians ahead of Toronto. Take away their games against Baltimore last year, and they were 70-74.

When we're talking about the disadvantages of this division, the argument is primarily about the spending power of NY and Boston, leaving Tampa Bay's recent success out of the discussion. Tampa Bay has managed to overcome the odds of late with a lower payroll than the Orioles year after year.

[Sports Guy]

When the O's fix the multitude of internal issues that they still have, they can do more talking about the division. I do think they have the talent on this '11 team to be pretty competitve in 4 of the 6 divisions this year. We agree that does not mean much, because the reality is the O's have to find a way to improve in the East... and more importantly Tampa has shown they can do it, with far less resources than the O's... just further illustrating the things the O's are not doing good enough.

They would be more competitive...but they wouldn't be true contenders IMO. There is a difference there.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Orioles know that they have their backs against the wall. They know they have this divisional disadvantage. They see what Tampa has done. They see what Toronto is building.

They see 4 teams in front of them who, in their own ways, are trying to create some kind of competitive advantage.

What are the Orioles doing? What advantage are they trying to create? What creative and intelligent moves are they doing? Are they just throwing their hands up, saying screw the MiL system and just signing top FAs? Nope...Not that either.

So, knowing they are at a disadvantage and knowing that the other FOUR teams are building something special in their own ways, the Orioles continue to remain status quo.

As a fan, knowing that, you, Tony or someone else tell me why I should be complaining about the division.

What do some fans now say? Let's run away from the top competition, get a "fairer" schedule and things will be ok for us....That's pretty freaking delusional IMO.

[eddie83]

They would be more competitive...but they wouldn't be true contenders IMO. There is a difference there.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Orioles know that they have their backs against the wall. They know they have this divisional disadvantage. They see what Tampa has done. They see what Toronto is building.

They see 4 teams in front of them who, in their own ways, are trying to create some kind of competitive advantage.

What are the Orioles doing? What advantage are they trying to create? What creative and intelligent moves are they doing? Are they just throwing their hands up, saying screw the MiL system and just signing top FAs? Nope...Not that either.

So, knowing they are at a disadvantage and knowing that the other FOUR teams are building something special in their own ways, the Orioles continue to remain status quo.

As a fan, knowing that, you, Tony or someone else tell me why I should be complaining about the division.

What do some fans now say? Let's run away from the top competition, get a "fairer" schedule and things will be ok for us....That's pretty freaking delusional IMO.

Tampa did what they did over 4 years like you have given AM?

Toronto has been a better org but you act like they are the Orioles of the 60's and 70's.

[Sports Guy]

Tampa did what they did over 4 years like you have given AM?

Tampa was a terrible organization until Friedman came in....So yes, they have basically done it over that time span.

Toronto has been a better org but you act like they are the Orioles of the 60's and 70's.

Yea, that's what I am doing ..Look, either have an intelligent conversation(like the rest of us are having) or leave the thread..Idiocy like this does nothing to advance this thread whatsoever.

[eddie83]

Tampa was a terrible organization until Friedman came in....So yes, they have basically done it over that time span.

Yea, thta's what I am doing..Look, either have an intelligent conversation or leave the thread..Idiocy like this does nothing to advance this thread whatsoever.

Nonsense how many players like Crawford, Shields, Niemann, Wade Davis, Hellickson, Upton, Young etc were in place by the time he took over. Has he done a good job, yes. He didn't become the GM until 2006 and since then they have added Price a #1 pick and Longoria to the MLB roster.

[Sports Guy]

You should be complaining about the division, because San Francisco gets to wear World Series rings this year even though they were likely not any better than Toronto last year. I wouldn't place money on the O's winning either Central or Western Division this year, but I'd be surprised if they were eliminated before September in any of those divisions, and think they'd be well positioned for '12.

I've said it several times though, and I'll say it again... the O's can't use the division as a crutch. The O's have to do everything they can to improve internally, and when (if) that occurs, they can speak louder about the division. It is extremely frustrating for all of us, seeing Tampa in particular do more with less. I do agree with you that the O's are not doing enough. I do agree that more needs to be done with Scouting, Player Development... would like to see further 'brain power' added to the Front Office.

There are plenty of questions even with the O's 'answers', but I don't agree with you about the lack of talent here. I certainly agree that more is needed.

I think the focus for fans should continue to be the core of players the O's are trying to build around. (Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Matusz, Britton, and Arrieta) and watching them over the remainder of the season. Like you, I think Hardy should be extended... unlike you, I'm willing to give him a 3rd year. If not extended by the deadline, I think you have to consider moving him. I believe Guthrie should be shoppped, but I do not think he has to be definitively traded. I'm fine with shopping Uehara and Johnson as well.

If you get Hardy extended, and Reynolds' defense goes back to what he has done the two previous years... I think the core is pretty good. Not good enough in the East though, so additional moves will be needed.

If there is not going to be an International Draft, and the O's have no desire to improve their International efforts... further money needs to go into Amateur Scouting. If there winds up being hard slotting, I'd still like to see further investment in the department with additional scouts.

I like the talent of the core but Wieters and Markakis continue to disappoint in the power department.

BRob may be done and even if he's not, how good is he going to be as he gets well into his 30s anyway?

As I have said, this team is 2-3 bats, 2-3 relief pitchers and a TOR starter away from being a real contender in this division. If we were in another division, we may only need 1-=2 bats, 1 relief pitcher and another very good starter but perhaps not a guy that is on the level of an ace or a really solid #1.

We are miles away from contending and that is due to the ineptness of a horribly run organization.

The division we are in is why we are the furthest team from contending in all of MLB....that is where that comes into play.

If we were in another division(outside of the NLE), we would still be further away but the outlook wouldn't be as bleak.

I still go back to the fact that this team knows they have to be a GREAT organization to contend and yet they choose to not do what it takes to be that organization. That's all I need to know about this situation and those who are blaming the division aren't seeing the big picture IMO.

[Flosman]

I thought Buck said last year,he spoke to some free agents and they thought Baltimore was a good destination. What happened?

Buck wasn't precise enough. Those FA meant Baltimore was a great town to visit a few times a year, win some games and visit the inner harbor and see the sights.

[JTrea81]

My point still stands.

A change is needed at the top, and sooner than later. I'd dump MacPhail by the All-Star break.

We are headed down the same path we've been down for the entire MacPhail era and it's time to put a stop to it.

Buck has two more years left on his contract, Andy has half a season left on his.

MacPhail's is the cheapest option to swallow, and we've seen that replacing the manager under him doesn't work anyway.

So you've fired the manager and you want to send a message - now you've got to fire the GM.

[csgordos]

My point still stands.

A change is needed at the top, and sooner than later. I'd dump MacPhail by the All-Star break.

We are headed down the same path we've been down for the entire MacPhail era and it's time to put a stop to it.

Buck has two more years left on his contract, Andy has half a season left on his.

MacPhail's is the cheapest option to swallow, and we've seen that replacing the manager under him doesn't work anyway.

So you've fired the manager and you want to send a message - now you've got to fire the GM.

I know it is starting to get really bad when these statements are starting to make sense. Good news is that I have more free time every evening.

[NewMarketSean]

After thinking about it some, it's a culmination of a lot of things, many of which we can blame MacPhail for. But we can't discount the bad luck he's had with injuries and players not developing the way they should have, or the way we hoped they would. And he's probably handcuffed in some regard, which is exemplified in not being able to fire Stockstill.

But when all this is taken into account, MacPhail has failed. No doubts about that.

[Skeletor]

After thinking about it some, it's a culmination of a lot of things, many of which we can blame MacPhail for. But we can't discount the bad luck he's had with injuries and players not developing the way they should have, or the way we hoped they would. And he's probably handcuffed in some regard, which is exemplified in not being able to fire Stockstill.

But when all this is taken into account, MacPhail has failed. No doubts about that.

I disagree. Outside of Stockstill, you can blame MacPhail for all of that too. I don't think the O's are being overly bitten by the injury bug relatively speaking. Scott getting hurt is probably the only one you couldn't see coming. Regardless, the team wasn't prepared for it.

[NewMarketSean]

I disagree. Outside of Stockstill, you can blame MacPhail for all of that too. I don't think the O's are being overly bitten by the injury bug relatively speaking. Scott getting hurt is probably the only one you couldn't see coming. Regardless, the team wasn't prepared for it.

If he was blocked on getting rid of Stockstill, you can bet there are other areas where he was blocked. IIRC, a former OH insider said that AM wanted to do other things and was told no. I remember the thread title as being "Angelos still calling the shots" or something. But that may have referred to Stockstill.

Brian Matusz's injury came out of nowhere and hurt the team a lot. We'd probably be 4-5 games better if he was healthy and pitching like he'd been last season, meaning we'd be close to .500, like we all thought we'd be. You had to expect that Roberts would be injured for a good part of the season but not for this long, and not the way it happened -- hitting himself in head with bat. You couldn't write this crap sometimes.