AM on Int'l spending

[JTrea81]

We really have the worst combo of GM and owner for this...and many other things.

Going back to my overslot example, do you think another GM could convince Angelos the Orioles should pay money to the buscones for their talent?

Andy doesn't believe in it himself, so of course he won't persuade Angelos.

[Sports Guy]

Am I overreacting to think this is just a ridiculous thing to say? I mean do other organizations look at this and just think, "duh." If this is your philosophy, I mean, go for it. But why say this publicly?

"well see, the players in the Dominican are risky, often times they can be really good in a workout, but that doesn't translate to games." You can get away with that? There's an obvious cure, send scouts and watch them play. And if you can't do that, then don't just do away with the whole market, other teams find good players through these methods.

Anytime AM opens his mouth about this topic, something dumb always comes out.

[MikeAD]

Going back to my overslot example, do you think another GM could convince him the Orioles should pay money to the buscones for their talent?

Sure, if he trusts the GM then its fine. He trusts AM and AM clearly is telling him this is the way to win. PA sees the data, the track record, and says ok.

[Sports Guy]

Going back to my overslot example, do you think another GM could convince Angelos the Orioles should pay money to the buscones for their talent?

Andy doesn't believe in it himself, so of course he won't persuade Angelos.

Who knows...I wouldn't bet on it though...It has never been something PA believed in.

[Sports Guy]

Sure, if he trusts the GM then its fine. He trusts AM and AM clearly is telling him this is the way to win. PA sees the data, the track record, and says ok.

PA is a terrible owner but he is a very smart man.

If AM says that stuff to him, wouldn't you figure to ask a follow up question about how other teams are doing it and are very successful with it? But he won't do that because he just doesn't want to spend the money in that market.

[Flosman]

As I have always said, the Orioles just do not care about the Int'l side of things and it shows.

AM said enough to where the casual fan says, you know what, he has a point.

This is not what AM is saying at all. He is saying he is not willing to give 7 figure bonuses to guys that have played less than a seasons worth of games at any level. IF you look at it objectively it makes sense. Imagine Keiron Pope in the DR, he is every bit the athlete any of the big bonus DR guys are. Do you think that it would make sense to give him that kind of money. AM is saying he will pay for the risk when it makes sense.

Here is a question for you where did Schoop come from? I see some international guys showing up at the low levels. The thing is any guy AM signed would be at best where Schoop is. If any segment is a place where it is too early to know how he is doing it would be this one. He is making value bets in this market, maybe he knows the size of his bankroll and knows he can't risk losing huge pots trying to hit a homerun every once in a while.

[MikeAD]

PA is a terrible owner but he is a very smart man.

If AM says that stuff to him, wouldn't you figure to ask a follow up question about how other teams are doing it and are very successful with it? But he won't do that because he just doesn't want to spend the money in that market.

I mean, I'm not in any position to assume this sort of thing, but I think he really wants to win. I think he thinks AM's plan is the best way to get that. Not really rational from our point of view. And about the 'other teams,' I feel like PA has always felt we had to do things differently, so maybe that aids.

[JTrea81]

This is not what AM is saying at all. He is saying he is not willing to give 7 figure bonuses to guys that have played less than a seasons worth of games at any level. IF you look at it objectively it makes sense. Imagine Keiron Pope in the DR, he is every bit the athlete any of the big bonus DR guys are. Do you think that it would make sense to give him that kind of money. AM is saying he will pay for the risk when it makes sense.

Here is a question for you where did Schoop come from? I see some international guys showing up at the low levels. The thing is any guy AM signed would be at best where Schoop is. If any segment is a place where it is too early to know how he is doing it would be this one. He is making value bets in this market, maybe he knows the size of his bankroll and knows he can't risk losing huge pots trying to hit a homerun every once in a while.

Miguel Sano - who could have been had for the cost of Garrett Atkins. Atkins was more risky.

MacPhail takes risks, but for smaller amounts and in the wrong areas.

He's like a guy that continues to pull the lever on a slot machine with the Orioles' money instead of playing a game of high stakes Texas Hold 'Em.

[Sports Guy]

This is not what AM is saying at all. He is saying he is not willing to give 7 figure bonuses to guys that have played less than a seasons worth of games at any level. IF you look at it objectively it makes sense. Imagine Keiron Pope in the DR, he is every bit the athlete any of the big bonus DR guys are. Do you think that it would make sense to give him that kind of money. AM is saying he will pay for the risk when it makes sense.

Here is a question for you where did Schoop come from? I see some international guys showing up at the low levels. The thing is any guy AM signed would be at best where Schoop is. If any segment is a place where it is too early to know how he is doing it would be this one. He is making value bets in this market, maybe he knows the size of his bankroll and knows he can't risk losing huge pots trying to hit a homerun every once in a while.

You have never heard me say we MUST sign a bunch of 7 figure dominican players.

Every once in a while, a Sano comes around that I think we should be bidding for but for the most part, I am not saying to do that.

Hoosiers has mentioned before that if we just spent another 2M or so on the INt'l side of things, then people would be happier...And you know what, he is absolutely right because 2M more dollars is probably anywhere from 5-15 new players into the organization.

They just aren't doing enough and there is zero intelligent justification for it.

[nadecir]

"A lot of the signing bonuses that you are reading about for no doubt talented players that are signing with these other clubs for millions out of the Dominican, they are doing that without the benefit of playing games. That is a not a risk I am willing to take." he said.

The last bolded statement describes what is wrong with Andy MacPhail's philosophy.

In the AL East, where the Orioles get outspent by a large percentage, the Orioles need to take some risks. If we take the conservative route, the Yankees and Red Sox will beat us every single year because the Orioles are not going to beat the Yankees and Red Sox by paying the going rate for the top free agents with the highest WARPs.

So it sounds like MacPhail is happy to sign the likes of Wigginton, Izturis, Gonzalez, Greg, Lee, and Guerrero for 10's of millions of dollars annually because these guys are 'less risky' rather than spending the money on riskier, but higher upside international prospects.

The problem with this philosophy is that it is very unlikely that you are going to get the significant over-performance from players necessary to compete in the AL East from these type players. To compete in the AL East where you are getting outspent considerably, you are going to need more than a couple players who are big bargains compared to what you are paying them. That requires signing players with some risk associated with them.

The Orioles need a front office willing to take risks. C'mon Andy, we haven't had a winning season in 13 years. If the risks dont' pan out, can it really get much worse?

[Sports Guy]

Miguel Sano - who could have been had for the cost of Garrett Atkins. Atkins was more risky.

MacPhail takes risks, but for smaller amounts and in the wrong areas.

And this is also a good point. Look at some of the horrible risks this team has taken with some of their FA signings. They can justify that but not justify getting into the Int'l market in a larger capacity?

[JTrea81]

The Orioles need a front office willing to take risks. C'mon Andy, we haven't had a winning season in 13 years. If the risks dont' pan out, can it really get much worse?

This is why no Orioles fan should want Andy MacPhail back.

At least if you change the messenger, there's a good chance PGA will be hearing a different tune about international spending...

Most GMs want to spend in that area now or better yet know they have to. MacPhail is very much in the minority.

[Hank Scorpio]

This is why no Orioles fan should want Andy MacPhail back.

I'll never understand why you just dismiss Angelos and his input.

It's like he's not even there.

[Flosman]

Miguel Sano - who could have been had for the cost of Garrett Atkins. Atkins was more risky.

MacPhail takes risks, but for smaller amounts and in the wrong areas.

Only you would think that a 16 YO athlete is less risky than a 28 YO guy with 4 ML season with an OPS over 750 and one full season over 950. Where he should have spent the money is a valid question. But Sano's SO rate gives pause to consider AM's position. Even including his time in the DRSL he Ks 28% of the time. His numbers this season in the APPY league are only encouraging through the SSS glasses. Remember even Rowell tore up that league.

[Sports Guy]

Only you would think that a 16 YO athlete is less risky than a 28 YO guy with 4 ML season with an OPS over 750 and one full season over 950. Where he should have spent the money is a valid question. But Sano's SO rate gives pause to consider AM's position. Even including his time in the DRSL he Ks 28% of the time. His numbers this season in the APPY league are only encouraging through the SSS glasses. Remember even Rowell tore up that league.

Atkins was on a serious decline and had little chance of even being league average...Yes, he was riskier than Sano.

And Sano could be used in a trade...He is depth...quality depth. One of the top 100 prospects in baseball heading into the season.

Just another example where the Orioles spent money poorly when they could have been smarter about it...But for some fans, they will always find the excuses for them.