TT: MacPhail's plan has failed

[NewMarketSean]

I don't really care if a plan succeeds or fails. What I care about, and what is becoming clearer to me, is that MacPhail's plan had no chance of success.

Agreed, and it was pretty obvious early on that it wouldn't succeed.

[JTrea81]

The problem was there was no plan.

The plan was to say there was a plan and then to half-ass what he said was the plan because he didn't want to take risks and had to stick to his philosophy of running an organization even though the model was 20 years outdated.

He did exactly what he did in Chicago. Same exact Andy MacPhail with the same results.

[Singleton]

Well a lot of the players we have on the team now were drafted under Flanagan. He was let go as GM because the team failed to develop under him. The same thing is happening here. MacPhail may deserve credit for a draft signing or a trade, but overall his plan has failed. I was saying that Frobby's point may be valid but it still doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. MacPhail has failed.

And I'd give Flanny credit for the guys drafted and that started to develop under his regime.

The point I was trying to make in my original post in this thread is that "the plan" has hit a huge, giant, enormous bump. Maybe I'm playing semantics but I don't like the term "failed" because I think there is some good that has come that is significant. Most "plans" need modification. Some -- like this one -- need it big time. Whether it is AM, or Buck or Cashman or whoever-- the question now is ...what do we do.

I'm not ready to give up on some of our younger players. We need to add more...in a hurry.

[clapdiddy]

Well a lot of the players we have on the team now were drafted under Flanagan. He was let go as GM because the team failed to develop under him. The same thing is happening here. MacPhail may deserve credit for a draft signing or a trade, but overall his plan has failed. I was saying that Frobby's point may be valid but it still doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. MacPhail has failed.

To quote one of my favorite animated movies...First rule of leadership: Everything is your fault.

Of course, this likely applies more to our "Hopper"...Mr. Angelos.

[ChaosLex]

The problem was there was no plan.

The plan was to say there was a plan and then to half-ass what he said was the plan because he didn't want to take risks and had to stick to his philosophy of running an organization even though the model was 20 years outdated.

To be fair, I would've liked to see what AM could've accomplished with a competent player development staff.

[SrMeowMeow]

Agreed, and it was pretty obvious early on that it wouldn't succeed.

Disagree completely. He said all the right things and made great trades. The only dissatisfaction early on was due to a lack of spending in free agency. Let me just say that the Teixeira saga and the absence of big free agent signings plays no part in my opinion of MacPhail. It is not a factor. But the growing consensus that he won't be a major player internationally, a disappointing draft presence (signing Mike Gonzalez, being middle of the road on overslot spending), and a sense that he's conservative in all the wrong ways - penny wise and a pound foolish describes him well - has convinced me that he doesn't understand what it takes to win with this team.

[Singleton]

My point in that other thread, as inarticulate as it may have been, is the same thing. That's why I have qualms with the player develoment system in place under MacPhail. But in the other thread you told me I was jumping the gun. But there's nothing to really get excited about in terms of impact players until you start looking in the Carolina League.

This is all true but didn't we know that we had nothing above Carolina before the season? So maybe we should have fired AM before the season cause our minor league system clearly had gaping holes.

[vab]

I thought MacPhail's plan was reasonable as well but it's a bottom line business and the proof is on the field every night. Painfully. Going forward I think the club has to be very cautious when breaking in young starting pitchers and they should begin at the back-end of the rotation regardless of how they've looked coming through the minors. And certainly there should be no more than two starters in the rotation with less than a full year of major league experience. This division is a meat-grinder and young pitchers can lose their confidence in a hurry which I think is the biggest reason for the collapse of pitching staff this year.

[Skeletor]

To be fair, I would've liked to see what AM could've accomplished with a competent player development staff.

Well, that's on him too.

[Tony-OH]

I don't really think the plan in in of itself was terrible, but as Sports Guy said, it was the execution as well as the lack of development of the young players that needed to happen for it to be successful. I think Britton is going to be just fine, and Arrieta is probably a solid 4 or 5 starter, and I WANT to beleive that Matusz' velocity and command issues are all mechanical and he'll be back, but at the end of the day, none have dominated this year for any time and we're now hoping that they all rebound.

MacPhail had four years to make changes in the player development area and he really didn't do the job. Yes, he improved the spring and extended facilities and yes he finally was able to move David Stockstill out of the Farm Director role, but this organization hasn't been able to develop an impact pitcher since Mike Mussina. The were given Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Berken, Bergesen, Hernandez, Spoone, Hobgood, Coffey, Wirsch, Berry, Klein and Patton to work with over the last four years and what have they got to show for it really? That's a lot of talent not to hit on a few of them. Hernandez got us Reynolds so that's a plus and Britton is going to be fine, but how do the rest of them come up injured or non-perform or regress at the major league level?

Grant it this organization's motto should be, "Where the worse case scenario is always a reality, " but something has to be re-missed for so many guys to under perform.

Add to the fact that MacPhail has not bought one impact bat on the free agent market and has a knack for getting the worse case scenario's out of his blue-light special bats, and you have the recipe for one failed plan.

In my opinion the organization needs a fresh new look on things and the organization needs a major shake up.

Do I think it will happen as long as Angelos is owner? Not really. And that's the painful part.

[ChaosLex]

Well, that's on him too.

Hasn't there been some talk that PA has vetoed stuff though? Like the Stockstill's being reassigned? Perhaps I'm hearing wrong...

[Tony-OH]

And I'd give Flanny credit for the guys drafted and that started to develop under his regime.

The point I was trying to make in my original post in this thread is that "the plan" has hit a huge, giant, enormous bump. Maybe I'm playing semantics but I don't like the term "failed" because I think there is some good that has come that is significant. Most "plans" need modification. Some -- like this one -- need it big time. Whether it is AM, or Buck or Cashman or whoever-- the question now is ...what do we do.

I'm not ready to give up on some of our younger players. We need to add more...in a hurry.

Plain and simple, we are still in last place, the exact place we were when MacPhail's plan started four years ago. I don't know any better way to access the plan then by the current place in the standings and the likelihood of it changing in the near future. Just because the plan failed does not mean there are not some good parts still available, it just means that the current model has failed under MacPhail's leadership.

[Singleton]

I don't really think the plan in in of itself was terrible, but as Sports Guy said, it was the execution as well as the lack of development of the young players that needed to happen for it to be successful. I think Britton is going to be just fine, and Arrieta is probably a solid 4 or 5 starter, and I WANT to beleive that Matusz' velocity and command issues are all mechanical and he'll be back, but at the end of the day, none have dominated this year for any time and we're now hoping that they all rebound.

MacPhail had four years to make changes in the player development area and he really didn't do the job. Yes, he improved the spring and extended facilities and yes he finally was able to move David Stockstill out of the Farm Director role, but this organization hasn't been able to develop an impact pitcher since Mike Mussina. The were given Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Berken, Bergesen, Hernandez, Spoone, Hobgood, Coffey, Wirsch, Berry, Klein and Patton to work with over the last four years and what have they got to show for it really? That's a lot of talent not to hit on a few of them. Hernandez got us Reynolds so that's a plus and Britton is going to be fine, but how do the rest of them come up injured or non-perform or regress at the major league level?

Grant it this organization's motto should be, "Where the worse case scenario is always a reality, " but something has to be re-missed for so many guys to under perform.

Add to the fact that MacPhail has not bought one impact bat on the free agent market and has a knack for getting the worse case scenario's out of his blue-light special bats, and you have the recipe for one failed plan.

In my opinion the organization needs a fresh new look on things and the organization needs a major shake up.

Do I think it will happen as long as Angelos is owner? Not really. And that's the painful part.

On this point we may be fortunate as many thought last offseason was the time to invest in the big bats available and thus far (admittedly with a lot of time left) they have been a disaster.

If we're "woe is me" with the contracts of DLee, Vlad and Atkins, imagine the hysteria if we'd bought the best bats of Carl Crawford and Adam Dunn and been on the hook for 200 mil. Yowwww. Jack Z from Seattle may also lay claim to having "bad luck" in free agent hitters (See Figgins, Chone and Bradley, Milton).

The gap in talent in our minor league system is impossible to explain away as it his inability to find reliable bullpen arms. Not signing an impact hitter as a free agent...? i'm not sure they were there for the taking.

[blid]

There could be more depth in the system if MacPhail was a better GM. Why is he signing guys that cost picks, not getting picks out of arb players, etc.

[Singleton]

Plain and simple, we are still in last place, the exact place we were when MacPhail's plan started four years ago. I don't know any better way to access the plan then by the current place in the standings and the likelihood of it changing in the near future. Just because the plan failed does not mean there are not some good parts still available, it just means that the current model has failed under MacPhail's leadership.

I agree with this. I'm just not sure I'm ok with tearing it all down. I still think we have enough young "nuggets" that if we can add a handful more, we could have a pretty good brew.