At what point was it clear to you MacPhail was not "the guy?"

[Stotle]

Hilarious. Truly. I'm the agressive one, yet you're the one putting me down. I'd love to see how I was being so aggressive. Glad SG and Stotle agree, that says plenty considering the way they handle themselves on here. One is at least more upfront with the way he is rather than acting like he's so innocent.

For future reference, the classy way to stop debating with someone is to do just that without the snide remarks.

Just for you to cheer you up on a weekend. You clearly need it:

Now the world can know your plight....

[gretzkyscores]

To answer the original question ... the answer is "when we hired him", in spite of his Twins and Cubs average-to-below average record ... I was convinced then he was not the guy. He is the perfect "guy" to have extended 10 straight years of losing records to 14 years of losing records

[Sports Guy]

Hilarious. Truly. I'm the agressive one, yet you're the one putting me down. I'd love to see how I was being so aggressive. Glad SG and Stotle agree, that says plenty considering the way they handle themselves on here. One is at least more upfront with the way he is rather than acting like he's so innocent.

For future reference, the classy way to stop debating with someone is to do just that without the snide remarks.

Yea because when someone stops debating with you in any way, you always just leave it alone. LOL

I will give you credit though, you play the woe is me innocent victim role pretty well.

[mweb]

Just for you to cheer you up on a weekend. You clearly need it:

Now the world can know your plight....

You continue to show your true colors.

[mweb]

Yea because when someone stops debating with you in any way, you always just leave it alone. LOL

I will give you credit though, you play the woe is me innocent victim role pretty well.

Well this debate was basically over when he threw in the not interesting post. I had no intentions of going further with it unless he did. Yeah, if someone is avoiding a big point, I'd like a response as would you.

I'm not playing the innocent victim. I'll let the thread speak for itself. I was not being aggresive towards him at all and then he came up with a post that regardless if he thinks it's true or not, is a bit of a jerky post.

[crawjo]

I feel like things started going south for MacPhail when the Josh Bell experiment at third base turned into a complete disaster. Up to that point it seemed that the younger players still had an opportunity to make a huge impact, but when Bell was so dreadful last year, it really exposed how little offensive talent there was in the farm system. Then when Tillman came up this year and lost his velocity, and then Matusz was awful, the whole youth movement seemed to have ground to a halt. If you look back at the threads from this past offseason, most people at this site were really optimistic about the Orioles chances of posting a winning season this year, and even perhaps making an outside push for the wild card. People were talking about how the Orioles offense was better than Tampa's and Toronto's (when right now our 4.11 runs per game is behind Tampa at 4.15 and behind Toronto at 4.78), about how Orioles starting pitching was better than the Yankees and better than Toronto's. (Right now our starter's are giving up 5.24 runs per game, worst in the AL and well behind New York at 3.88 and Toronto at 4.63). So a lot of people seemed pretty high on MacPhail's performance heading into this year. I saw about a 75-win team, but even that total seems unrealistic right now given all that has gone wrong this season.

I do think that MacPhail has also run into some bad luck, although it is hard to say how much he is responsible for the fact that Roberts is no longer an everyday player, for the fact that Markakis has regressed since 2008, for the fact that Wieters has failed to become a stud middle of the order hitter. Imagine where this team might be with a helathy Roberts, a healthy Matusz, Wieters as a legitimate 30-HR, high OBP catcher, Markakis following his 2008 trendlines, etc. But for whatever reason all those things have gone against us, and he has to take the responsibility for that.

[SrMeowMeow]

I just think MacPhail's skillset comes out to average at best. Honestly, I think his mis-read of the international market alone is a dealbreaker.

[RHall31]

I was just curious when some reached their breaking point with Andy MacPhail (for those that have of course).

Mine's easy as most everybody knows the Tex fiasco pretty much sealed it for me as it did for others, but a very small group knew it from the beginning, while others seem to have had this year's results finally be the last straw.

So when did you determine that he's not the guy and needed to be replaced?

What was that move or non-move that did it or was it just a combination of things?

For me, it was the Tex non signing. I knew then that if Angelos wouldn't spend to get Tex, he wasn't

going to really spend what it takes to turn this franchise around. At that point, I knew Mcphail, or any other GM could never be completely successful working for PA.

[Moose Milligan]

I also think there are a lot of hypcrites around here. People who are rah rah one minute and then are the leaders of the lynch mob the next.

Like who?

[Moose Milligan]

Do you want names because you doubt that statement?

Pretty much. I think everyone around here is pretty consistent with their stances.

[Moose Milligan]

I think anyone who was predicting 85-90 wins this year and now is bashing MaPhail for doing a terrible job is a hypcrite. If the Orioles were 5 games over .500 right now, do you think we'd have the same thread going on here right now? Most, not all, of the posters are posing based on record, not on the things MacPhail has done or not done.

Of course if we were 5 games over .500 this thread wouldn't exist. If Vlad and DLee were killing it this year we'd be better off. If Matusz wasn't throwing kleenex at the plate we'd be better off, too.

Anyone can play the If game. Too bad that's not the reality.

I can't really fault anyone who gets excited before the season. Even I get a little optimistic, though by now I should know better. I wouldn't hold anyone predicting a .500 season against them.

[OFFNY]

Of course if we were 5 games over .500 this thread wouldn't exist. If Vlad and DLee were killing it this year we'd be better off. If Matusz wasn't throwing kleenex at the plate we'd be better off, too.

Anyone can play the If game. Too bad that's not the reality.

I can't really fault anyone who gets excited before the season. Even I get a little optimistic, though by now I should know better. I wouldn't hold anyone predicting a .500 season against them.

That is not what he is saying. Holding it against them is one thing. I was one of those that predicted a winning season for the Orioles in 2011. Taking them to task for predicting a winning season, and then 4 months later saying that MacPhail did a terrible job in the off-season because we are almost 20 games under .500 is quite another.

[Moose Milligan]

I guess that's where we differ, because I would hold that against them. Now, I'm not arguing with the few who argued that know matter what we did this season, that we weren't positioned well for the future. That was a fair argument and remains so. I have a problem with people who liked the team MacPhail put together for this year and now call for his head because of that team's performance. I think that's the majority of posters calling for his head. They are doing so because of this team's performance.

I see where you're coming from but IMO this season was really hinging on the pitching and IIRC, no one was really down on Matusz this year. A lot expected a better performance from Tillman. If those two were pitching really well, we'd be singing different tunes about the 2011 season.

DLee and Vlad haven't performed. Gregg sucks, however MacPhail was by and large blasted for that pickup. Hardy and Reynolds have been good pickups, despite Reynolds erratic at best defense.

If you're holding up DLee and Vlad as reasons why this team has been awful, I can understand that point of view as well but he made two nice acquisitions. Hardy was championed by SG for a long, long time. Reynolds filled a hole that Josh Bell wasn't going to assume anytime soon.

The downfall of this season rests on the shoulders of the young pitchers who haven't performed. MacPhail's offseason has proven to be a mix of good and bad, but I don't think it's the sole reason why this team sucks right now.

[El Gordo]

Pretty much. I think everyone around here is pretty consistent with their stances.

I agree. The lynch mob leaders are always at the ready to reach for their pitchforks.

[weams]

I have been consistantly wrong and probably will continue to be. I am happier having hope.