Potential Free Agent 2B

[Sports Guy]

Anyway, you are right. He is a 3 WAR player now. But I think he is maturing into something more than that. I think we have a legitimate star on the rise with Jones and I am willing to take a risk with him. Is it a risk, yes it is but so is trading him and I think the rewards for keeping him exceed the rewards for trading him right now.

His defense has to greatly improve for him to be more than that. His offense is probably right where it will always be...sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse. A big jump in WAR is going to have to come from a huge improvement defensively.

Again, just my opinion. Don't bother calling me wrong, I already know you think I am. Just explain why it makes sense to trade Jones and not everyone else. Because, to me if Jones really is "only a 3WAR player" and not something to build around then we aren't going to get a bunch of pieces to build around back now are we? Therefore, if you are going to trade Jones you might as well blow it up and get as many prospects as you can back, flood the minors and develop away

Jones has legit value and can bring back a lot of talent. The extension he will want to sign will likely not be one that is worth it to the team. He is only 2 years away fro free agency and one of those years is next year, when this team is very unlikely to be a contender.

He will be coming off of arguably his best season and have 2 years left and known as a player willing to extend long term.

His value may never be higher than it will be this offseason.

End of the day, everything aligns perfectly to move him.

I do not think you get enough to justify trading Nick unless the Orioles are willing some salary and I think there is very little chance of that.

I have no issue trading Wieters if it nets us a TOR starter or something along those lines but I do not know what his value would be at this point. He may still have a lot of value based off of name, hype and upside.

So, the bottom line is Jones is just the guy on this team, when you look at all factors, that makes the most sense to trade for the position the team is in and the type of player he likely will be.

[Sports Guy]

It would depend on what else the Orioles did.

Rollins certainly wouldn't be the first get if that were the case.

And again, Roberts would have to decide to either hang them up or play out his last few years on the 60 day DL. I see Roberts trying to come back next season because we should have a much improved team.

You have no issue stating that you want this player or that player but its pretty rare that what you want to pay that player to come to Bmore is anywhere close to reality in terms of what it would take to get them to sign a contract here.

There is ZERO chance, no matter what the Orioles do, that Rollins is signing here for 3/30...ZERO!

[waroriole]

There is ZERO chance, no matter what the Orioles do, that Rollins is signing here for 3/30...ZERO!

Yeah, I don't think he'd even sign with Philly for 3/30. Someone is going to pay him more. I think he goes back to Philly for 3/36, but could possibly make more if he wants to leave.

He doesn't come here for less than 5/75, IMO.

[backwardsk]

It would depend on what else the Orioles did.

Rollins certainly wouldn't be the first get if that were the case.

And again, Roberts would have to decide to either hang them up or play out his last few years on the 60 day DL. I see Roberts trying to come back next season because we should have a much improved team.

Please explain. What I think you are saying is that it may be easier to get Rollins after they make other additions. Is that what you are saying? So if we suspend reality for a moment and sign fielder, darvish, and Wilson you'd think he'd sign here for 3/30? Why? He's already on a winner that is set up to be contenders for that period of time. The only way I see him leaving Philly is if he gets caught tearing down the Rocky statue or if a team gives him 15-20mm+ for multiple seasons

[Sanfran327]

Need to go get the best 2b possible. Who's remotely available?? Johnson would be nice. Obv, so would Phillips (even though that looks 99.9% unlikely to happen). Roberts may come back, in which case I'd ask him to be the full time DH.

Also, I don't want to get rid of Andino. We've invested way too much time into this guy, and he's finally looking like a real ball player. I think it would be foolish to let him walk now, just to contribute to another team's success.

[CA-ORIOLE]

How is it impractical to look at the team and say "hmm I may need a long term second baseman, I also have a team that is among the worst in OBP. Why not find a secondbaseman that has a higher than normal OBP?"

That is the very definition of practical.

When there aren't good options and the ones that are good are expensive it becomes narrow minded and impractical. It's a team problem. Not only that you seam intent on jettisoning the guy who actually has the highest OBP on the team.

It is impractical to think that that a guy like Andino will to continue to play like he has, which isn't all that great, when nothing in his history says he can continue that level of play for any extended period of time. It is impractical to rest all your hopes on Ryan Adams learning how to field in time to join the 2012 roster on Opening Day

Yeah, we're just going to have to disagree.

I've given you enough data to suggest Andino may continue to improve. If you want to ignore it, that's fine. Doesn't mean that Andino is a long term solution at second (though I wouldn't rule it out), but he's probably just as good as most of the short term FA's that are available and he's pretty darn cheap.

If you're concernd about OBP then you should be screaming about getting rid of a likely slug like Chris Davis. Either that or be thrilled with a 750 OPS with a Low to sub 300 OBP next year. Just get rid of him and that improves our OBP next year. Since we aren't going to get Fielder in Free Agency, we're only talking about stop gaps in Free agency anyways. Once you get rid of Davis, sign Willingham to play LF, resign Scott to DH and look to trade for a third baseman like....... Chase Headley.

As far as Ryan Adams goes, the guy has 6 years of Minor league experience as a middle infielder now. If he needs another year to "work on his defense" then we might as well move him to LF and/or make him a utility player at this point. It doesn't hurt anything to call him up for the rest of the season and see how horrible he his there. Now would be the time.

The streaky stuff is nonsense imo. Most all ball players are streaky to some extent.

Anyway that's my position on the FA second baseman stuff and the related OBP argument.

[JTrea81]

You have no issue stating that you want this player or that player but its pretty rare that what you want to pay that player to come to Bmore is anywhere close to reality in terms of what it would take to get them to sign a contract here.

There is ZERO chance, no matter what the Orioles do, that Rollins is signing here for 3/30...ZERO!

Maybe not 3/30, but like I said, 3/36 could probably get him here depending on other moves.

I doubt the Phillies offer him more than 3/30 given his age and performance and the fact they have Hamels to worry about locking up with a ton of committed money already.

You also forget our GM was a lousy recruiter, probably the worst in the history of the franchise. The "they won't come here" excuse might go right out the window once you get somebody in there who has signed premium talent before (not that Rollins is).

[The Maestro]

Jones is not good enough to build around. He isn't that type of player.

I'd move anybody in the right deal, but to say Jones isn't good enough to build around is wrong IMO. Are you saying that we've seen his ceiling this year?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Maybe not 3/30, but like I said, 3/36 could probably get him here depending on other moves.

I doubt the Phillies offer him more than 3/30 given his age and performance and the fact they have Hamels to worry about locking up with a ton of committed money already.

You also forget our GM was a lousy recruiter, probably the worst in the history of the franchise. The "they won't come here" excuse might go right out the window once you get somebody in there who has signed premium talent before (not that Rollins is).

You wanna give a 33 year old middle infielder with an OPS+ of 97 a 3/36 contract ?

[JTrea81]

You wanna give a 33 year old middle infielder with an OPS+ of 97 a 3/36 contract ?

You have to look at his value. He has a fWAR of 3.7 thus far with a UZR/150 of +6.0...

He doesn't strike out much, and he gives you the speed and defense from the SS position with a little bit of power.

Hardy's probably the best 2B option we would have so it makes sense to move him and grab Rollins for SS to bridge to Machado or whoever would be next.

[CA-ORIOLE]

You have to look at his value. He has a fWAR of 3.7 thus far with a UZR/150 of +6.0...

He doesn't strike out much, and he gives you the speed and defense from the SS position with a little bit of power.

Hardy's probably the best 2B option we would have so it makes sense to move him and grab Rollins for SS to bridge to Machado or whoever would be next.

You also have to figure he will decline at 33, likely fairly quickly as a MI on defense and on offense. He's already moved into the neg range rate on UZR and is being carried by his FP. What difference does it make that he doesn't K much?

[NewMarketSean]

You have to wonder how much better a $5-8 million dollar 2B is going to be over someone like Andino or Ryan Adams.

We're not going to be bringing in anyone really good. Let's just put that out there now. So we might as well go with one of our internal options if Roberts can't go or gets hurt again.

[LookitsPuck]

Kelly Johnson, please.

[CA-ORIOLE]

You have to wonder how much better a $5-8 million dollar 2B is going to be over someone like Andino or Ryan Adams.

We're not going to be bringing in anyone really good. Let's just put that out there now. So we might as well go with one of our internal options if Roberts can't go or gets hurt again.

That's what I'm saying.

[Sports Guy]

Maybe not 3/30, but like I said, 3/36 could probably get him here depending on other moves.

I doubt the Phillies offer him more than 3/30 given his age and performance and the fact they have Hamels to worry about locking up with a ton of committed money already.

You also forget our GM was a lousy recruiter, probably the worst in the history of the franchise. The "they won't come here" excuse might go right out the window once you get somebody in there who has signed premium talent before (not that Rollins is).

He isn't coming here for that either.