Biggest individual disappointment of the season?

[Sports Guy]

Matusz is the rather obvious answer imo.

Yes, Wieters has been disappointing, but some are looking at this wrong imo. ccbird made a good point in that Wieters hype from 2009 shouldn't hold that much weight here considering he had already had almost 900 plate appearances with about a 92 OPS+. So he was already a disappointment in that regard and it didn't make much sense to expect a big offensive season.

Matusz also had very big expectations prior to making the bigs and had shown a lot more promise than Wieters with his run to finish up last season. Wieters has actually improved this season with the bat and the glove while Matusz has been a complete disaster. The difference in expectations for this season and results is vastly larger for Matusz than Wieters. So Matusz is the easy choice for me.

Maybe not a big offensive season but some very obvious and significant improvement is fine to expect.

He was/is still at an age where you can expect improvement.

So, while a 900 OPS season may have been too much to expect, something in the 770-820 range wasn't.

[mweb]

This is a very fair point, it's just really hard to get that taste out of my mouth.

Oh I agree. I did expect more progression this year for him, but I didn't expect what I did when he was the best prospect in baseball. I just hoped for that.

[JustMyOpinion]

I vote Matusz.

I thought Wieters was overrated from day 1. So his lack of power does not surprise me.

Really could not expect much from left field.

Pie he may have talent, but he just has not not gotten consistent at bats to even get in any streak or rhythm. Though have my doubt on how much he could have done.

Reimold- I just do not see the hype. Maybe it's the Bergusen effect. "He just works hard". So keep giving him chances.

[mweb]

Maybe not a big offensive season but some very obvious and significant improvement is fine to expect.

He was/is still at an age where you can expect improvement.

So, while a 900 OPS season may have been too much to expect, something in the 770-820 range wasn't.

I think improving from a 90 OPS+ to a 105 OPS+ was a reasonable expectation. Instead he's improved to a 97 OPS+. So sure, a disappointment. But compare that to Matusz, who I think a 110 or better ERA+ was expected from, yet has a 47 in only 32 innings, and has had to pitch quite a bit in the minors due to his ineffectiveness, which is partially due to lost velocity.

Wieters rWAR has gone up from 2.4 to 2.5, while Matusz has gone from 3.1 to -1.1.

There was plenty of reason to expect Matusz to be the better player out of the two this year, or at least on par with Wieters. The results speak for themselves and make this an easy question to answer imo. That doesn't mean I'm not disappointed with Wieters, but that's more of an overall disappointment from what I originally expected than one isolated to this season's expectations.

[Sports Guy]

I think improving from a 90 OPS+ to a 105 OPS+ was a reasonable expectation. Instead he's improved to a 97 OPS+. So sure, a disappointment. But compare that to Matusz, who I think a 110 or better ERA+ was expected from, yet has a 47 in only 32 innings, and has had to pitch quite a bit in the minors due to his ineffectiveness, which is partially due to lost velocity.

Wieters rWAR has gone up from 2.4 to 2.5, while Matusz has gone from 3.1 to -1.1.

There was plenty of reason to expect Matusz to be the better player out of the two this year, or at least on par with Wieters. The results speak for themselves and make this an easy question to answer imo. That doesn't mean I'm not disappointed with Wieters, but that's more of an overall disappointment from what I originally expected than one isolated to this season's expectations.

And all of this is why BMat is the 2011 disappointment "winner".

But, I must say, this year hasn't caused me to question him long term. Hopefully he has learned to get his conditioning up and things like that but overall, I expect him to bounce back next year and be the pitcher we thought he would be this year..and maybe better than that.

I see no reason to believe Wieters will be what we hoped/thought he would be.

[mweb]

And all of this is why BMat is the 2011 disappointment "winner".

But, I must say, this year hasn't caused me to question him long term. Hopefully he has learned to get his conditioning up and things like that but overall, I expect him to bounce back next year and be the pitcher we thought he would be this year..and maybe better than that.

I see no reason to believe Wieters will be what we hoped/thought he would be.

Alright, so we agree.

And last year made you question Wieters long-term, at least I believe it did and it should have.

[Sports Guy]

Alright, so we agree.

And last year made you question Wieters long-term, at least I believe it did and it should have.

Yea it did...it made me doubt he could be the superstar we thought he would be...But still would have expected him to be a better hitter than this.

Of course, I had my doubts in his rookie year. I said back then his bat looked slow and that his athleticism was poor.

[MrOrange82]

This is a very fair point, it's just really hard to get that taste out of my mouth.

[LookitsPuck]

To further the above, in a sense: does anyone here seriously think the problems with the Orioles' staff revolve around pitch/game calling? From what I've seen, it doesn't really matter what Wieters calls...after it leaves the hand of an O's pitcher, who the Hell knows where it's winding up?

Uhhh, I do. The stands?

[jets4ever]

To me, its between Matusz and Wieters.

The lack of offense Wieters is producing is terrible. This team just needs him to be so much more.

But, he has at least been a contributor to the team and BMat really hasn't.

If I am looking at this for 2011(which is the point of the poll), then my answer is BMat. But if I am looking at this long term, then my answer is Wieters.

I (and I'm sure this team) can live with Wieters' offense being what it is so long as his defense continues to be what it is.

So, for me, the biggest disappointment is Matusz. And, it's not even close.

[Sports Guy]

I (and I'm sure this team) can live with Wieters' offense being what it is so long as his defense continues to be what it is.

So, for me, the biggest disappointment is Matusz. And, it's not even close.

Sorry but that is a defeatist attitude.

We didn't draft him and give him a huge bonus to be a Molina brother. We did it for him to be McCann, Mauer or Piazza.

[LookitsPuck]

I was expecting a 725-750 OPS out of Wieters, so his .720 OPS isn't the end of the world for me.

Matusz..just wow. I know he's been hurt and had a few complications here and there, but I think this is largely a result of conditioning. We really need a solid conditioning coach in this organization that will keep tabs on all of the players in the off-season. Have solid plans for them, make them follow it. Or at least try. I know Brady helps here and there, but that's not enough.

This is much akin to the Ravens letting Tom Zbikowski fight in the off-season. Really, guys? Granted he didn't get hurt and he isn't exactly a good player, but teams need to keep better tabs on their player. I'm obviously more concerned with overall conditioning, and when players like Josh Bell show up out of shape last year (granted he was better this year), Matusz being out of shape (although working out in Athletes Performance in Arizona) in regards to conditioning/strength, Nick Markakis showing the least amount of muscle in his career as an O, and so on and so forth...it's just very unnerving to me.

[mweb]

The gap widens ever futher today.

I'm also not so sure why we should be so much more confident in Matusz going forward than Wieters.

[SteveA]

I was expecting a 725-750 OPS out of Wieters, so his .720 OPS isn't the end of the world for me.

Matusz..just wow. I know he's been hurt and had a few complications here and there, but I think this is largely a result of conditioning. We really need a solid conditioning coach in this organization that will keep tabs on all of the players in the off-season. Have solid plans for them, make them follow it. Or at least try. I know Brady helps here and there, but that's not enough.

This is much akin to the Ravens letting Tom Zbikowski fight in the off-season. Really, guys? Granted he didn't get hurt and he isn't exactly a good player, but teams need to keep better tabs on their player. I'm obviously more concerned with overall conditioning, and when players like Josh Bell show up out of shape last year (granted he was better this year), Matusz being out of shape (although working out in Athletes Performance in Arizona) in regards to conditioning/strength, Nick Markakis showing the least amount of muscle in his career as an O, and so on and so forth...it's just very unnerving to me.

With the lockout going on, teams were not allowed to contact players at all, and player technically had no contract with the team. So there was nothing the Ravens could do whatsoever about Zibby fighting, other than perhaps stating in the media that they would prefer he didn't, and hope that he woudl read that and change his mind.

But yes, it does appear that the Orioles, who DO have players under contract because there is no lockout, don't seem to monitor or control what the players do in the offseason. A Huff will come into camp out of shape and they'll tell him not to next year. Now we hear Matusz saying he's going to do more conditioning work in the offeseason... how about being proactive and coming up with individual plans for each player to follow in the offseason.

[ccbird]

The gap widens ever futher today.

I'm also not so sure why we should be so much more confident in Matusz going forward than Wieters.

Just a completely lost year for Matusz from the get go. Never ever got on track. New pitching coach, injury, minor league stint,etc. And he's shown flashes of his projected potential for an extended period of time before. Has Wieters ever had an extended period where he flashed signs of his projected potential. Matusz gets a mulligan from me for this year. If he struggling again next June then I really start to worry long term.