Why do people dislike the Stockstills?

[Frobby]

Yea, that's fine...I honestly had misread the job title at first, so my apologies there.

However, I still don't see much evidence that he did some bang up job in terms of pro scouting. Look at the players the team was bringing in via FA. Look at how we played against other teams.

How can you say he did a good job with all of that? Can you really sit there and say you were impressed?

While I don't really know, I certainly can't say that John Stockstill did a great job as director of pro scouting. Assuming that is the case, I am not sure it is relevant to how good Stockstill is or isn't at his current job. The two jobs strike me as very different.

I expect the new GM to come in and evaluate what needs to be changed. If he decides he needs a new farm director, fine. I'm not defending the job Stockstill has done, I'm merely saying that we don't know enough to evaluate him very intelligently.

[Sports Guy]

What area? What metric are you using to identify "good" performance? For what period?

I get that the criticism is "simple." The issue is that the "issue" is pretty complicated, and thus "simple" criticism - like that of Crowley - is a poor fit, at best.

LOL..ok whatever. When your area is terrible, it falls on the guy in charge.

You may need more info than that to satisfy whatever your needs are and that's fine..you can continue to make things complicated on yourself.

Bottom line...ML scouting sucked on all levels and he was the one who was in charge of that.

Now, did PA make him keep scouts that sucked? Did PA not allow him to do things he wanted? Probably. I have no doubts about that. End of the day, everything is PA's fault but that doesn't mean you continue to employ people who aren't getting the job done.

[TGO]

If John Stockstill's goal is to re-institute the "Oriole Way", then I'm more than willing to give him a shot. As you've stated, I don't think he's been in his current position long enough to make a determination on how he fits.

This is going back a few years, but does anyone remember Doc Rodgers? Didn't he also want to bring back the Oriole Way or at least institute the same teaching and rules at each level of the minors? Some of what he wanted to do I recall as being a little bit silly, like forcing all minor leaguers to wear high socks (while I like that look personally I think that was a bit much), but generally I thought what he was talking about doing sounded pretty good. And of course, Mazzone wanted to have all minor and major league pitchers do the same throwing program, and the Orioles wouldn't let him put that in place.

So I guess the issue is, does J. Stockstill actually have the power to implement what he's talking about? Since Showalter seems to agree with him, I would hope so, but I really don't know.

By the way, I don't know if this was discussed last year when the news came out, but Doc Rodgers has terminal lung cancer. He's under 50 IIRC and has never smoked.

[Sports Guy]

While I don't really know, I certainly can't say that John Stockstill did a great job as director of pro scouting. Assuming that is the case, I am not sure it is relevant to how good Stockstill is or isn't at his current job. The two jobs strike me as very different.I expect the new GM to come in and evaluate what needs to be changed. If he decides he needs a new farm director, fine. I'm not defending the job Stockstill has done, I'm merely saying that we don't know enough to evaluate him very intelligently.

Perhaps...but he shouldn't have been promoted(or reassigned) to begin with and he sure as hell shouldn't be given a contract extension before his immediate boss is hired.

[Lucky Jim]

LOL..ok whatever. When your area is terrible, it falls on the guy in charge.

You may need more info than that to satisfy whatever your needs are and that's fine..you can continue to make things complicated on yourself.

Bottom line...ML scouting sucked on all levels and he was the one who was in charge of that.

Now, did PA make him keep scouts that sucked? Did PA not allow him to do things he wanted? Probably. I have no doubts about that. End of the day, everything is PA's fault but that doesn't mean you continue to employ people who aren't getting the job done.

Except this isn't the job we're talking about. Or:

While I don't really know, I certainly can't say that John Stockstill did a great job as director of pro scouting. Assuming that is the case, I am not sure it is relevant to how good Stockstill is or isn't at his current job. The two jobs strike me as very different.

[BrunoCherrytown]

But right now we are discussing John Stockstill. He doesn't do the drafting, he doesn't decide how many scouts and cross-checkers we have, etc.

The thing that is tricky is that a guy can be good at his job but tangible results aren't obvious right away. Tampa Bay sucked for three years after Andrew Friedman was hired, and now everyone thinks the guy is a genius.

It'd be worth knowing whether another team has ever asked to interview John Stockstill then while he's been working for us.

I mean if he's one of the few bright spots in this Ebola Virus, toxic organization, one would think the other teams would've been rolling in to scoop him up.

I'd be curious to know if anybody's ever shown any interest in having him leave the O's to go to a real team.

And if they did show interest, I then question his sanity considering how handcuffed any competent person is in this organization.

So given a thumbs up or down vote on keeping both Stockstills, I'd personally give the thumbs down.

They should have the CDC come through the front office and cleanse it at this point. Or maybe powderize the new Oriole way and send it in envelopes to the GMs of all the serious teams in baseball. Weaponizing this wretchedness may be our only way to compete.

[Roll Tide]

Honest question because I'm not sure.

It seems like any criticism about PA starts with the Stockstills. Are they that bad at their respective jobs or is there more going on behind the scenes?

Thanks in advance.

Lex ...Here's my problem with anyone has worked in scouting & development for the Orioles since the late 70's. The Orioles are pretty close to a zero STAR LEVEL TALENT since they produced Cal Ripken. The system has produced a few solid major leaguers over that time especially Markakis & Wieters. But if I were grading the system over the last 30 years my grade would be at or near F. They seriously need a overhaul. I would get rid of everyone as they need a fresh start. The whole minor league coaching staff including the strength people need to be on the same page as well. The fact that they trade for a quality prospect and then he falls off the table only adds to the problem. I dont count Jones as he didnt spend anytime in our minor league system. But a guy like Bell comes here looking like a cant miss and then completely falls off the table is unexcusable.

[Sports Guy]

Except this isn't the job we're talking about. Or:

I am focusing on his entire tenure here, not just the last year.

The player development blows for the Orioles but I agree that 1 year isn't enough time to judge anyone in that type of a job.

I am talking about him overall though.

[El Gordo]

Stockstill's been in the organizaqtion for 5 years. Director of Player Development for a little more than a year. While he was head of international scouting he made the only progress in that area in many years. And that was under heavy restrictions, not of his making. He hasn't been in charge of player developmenet long enough for any but the most benighted to expect to see major results. His intentions in changing that system certainly seem correct. As far as I can tell the only bad thing that can be said about him is he has the same name as his brother.

[Frobby]

It'd be worth knowing whether another team has ever asked to interview John Stockstill then while he's been working for us....given a thumbs up or down vote on keeping both Stockstills, I'd personally give the thumbs down.

I agree with you on both points.

[El Gordo]

Th Pro Scouting Director is responsible for providing information on other teams organization and players, useful in making trades and signing FA. I can't see how anyone can judge whether the quality of this information was good or not. Simply citing trade or FA acquisitions, made or not made during his tenure, wouldn't necessarily reflect on the quality of information.

[TakebackOPACY]

A couple years ago, one of the O's minor leaguers blogged about his annual review with Dave Stockstill. The blog was promptly removed, but I know some folks here remember it. I think JTrea indirectly referred to it the other day in the thread about John Stockstill getting a 2012 extension.

[Chevytrckman3]

I really thought it was time to move away from AM. But, if PA wanted AM back, and AM didn't want to, maybe this was a part of the reason? Maybe AM wasn't happy with the way Stockstill was doing his job. Maybe AM wanted to change that, and PA wouldn't. Is it a coincedence, that Stockstill was extended, almost immediately after AM decided not to come back? Just a thought. But, the new GM is going to have to be thick-skinned, because he is going to be handed what he needs to work with, rather than picking his own tools to use.

[Malike]

LOL..ok whatever. When your area is terrible, it falls on the guy in charge.

You may need more info than that to satisfy whatever your needs are and that's fine..you can continue to make things complicated on yourself.

Bottom line...ML scouting sucked on all levels and he was the one who was in charge of that.

Now, did PA make him keep scouts that sucked? Did PA not allow him to do things he wanted? Probably. I have no doubts about that. End of the day, everything is PA's fault but that doesn't mean you continue to employ people who aren't getting the job done.

I think you'll agree, after reading the bold part of your quote that it really doesn't matter who they hire. They could fire Stockstill and I wouldn't complain, but the new director would suck just as bad. As long as PA is holding the reins, it just doesn't matter. (Cue Bill Murray)

[mcgraw238]

A couple years ago, one of the O's minor leaguers blogged about his annual review with Dave Stockstill. The blog was promptly removed, but I know some folks here remember it. I think JTrea indirectly referred to it the other day in the thread about John Stockstill getting a 2012 extension.

I recall the blog stating that D Stockstill made the player sit in a chair really low to the ground while D. Stockstill sat in a chair that towered over the player. Intimidation at its finest...He probably concluded the interview with a good ole fashion water boarding.