John Hart the next O's GM?

[Fan4Life]

There really is nothing to trust me on. I told you what my source told me. I didn't say this was going to happen or it's not going to happen, I just repeated what I was told by someone who I know is connected well. It's for you to digest it anyway that you want.

I understand the effort here.. but you should just post the part you reiterated several times that expressed it is an intelligent rumor. I'm not sure how much clearer you could be.

[TonySoprano]

Basically, Hart has had one brilliant success (6 of 7 division titles in Cleveland before he stepped down) and one middling failure (3 of 4 losing seasons in Texas). On the whole, his track record is superior to MacPhail's pre-Baltimore IMO.

In his most recent role, he was a "middling failure." Going back to SG's point, if you were a gambling man, which Hart would Baltimore more likely get, the Cleveland one of the 90s, or the Texas one?

[Fan4Life]

In his most recent role, he was a "middling failure." Going back to SG's point, if you were a gambling man, which Hart would Baltimore more likely get, the Cleveland one of the 90s, or the Texas one?

Raises hand... rings bell... pushes buzzer...

[LookinUp]

I think many want something to believe in...to get excited about. It would be exciting if we brought in a guy to rebuild this organization in the mold of the Rangers. We want int'l development. We want more and better scouts. We want great player development. We want to deploy the checkbook where appropriate. We want a plan to build a winner.

I think where many disagree is whether we can build a winner with the likes of Jones and Markakis, or whether we should trade them in a larger rebuild.

Regardless, LaCava and DiPioto give us a real reason for optimism, or at least hope. Hart doesn't. That doesn't mean he cannot be everything we want in a GM. He could. The difference is we'll just be sitting back and watching, with faint hope that things turn out well.

In either case, I think most fans are in "show me" mode, so maybe this hire really won't matter for the organization one way or the other until we actually see some major moves and positive development.

Buck...I hope you get this right.

[Frobby]

In his most recent role, he was a "middling failure." Going back to SG's point, if you were a gambling man, which Hart would Baltimore more likely get, the Cleveland one of the 90s, or the Texas one?

I don't have the foggiest idea. I have only a superficial knowledge of what Hart did in Cleveland and why that succeeded, or what he did in Texas and why that didn't succeed. In fact, "superficial knowledge" is almost giving me too much credit. Without looking, I couldn't tell you anything Hart did in Texas other than hiring Buck Showalter.

[Tony-OH]

If Hart is the guy, as a special advisor with the Texas Rangers, don't expect anything to be announced until the World Series is over. I was told by one "insider" last week that nothing is going to happen until "next week." With the World Series going to be over no later than Thursday, it's makes some sense that it could be someone associated with one of the teams in the World Series.

[Sanfran327]

In his most recent role, he was a "middling failure." Going back to SG's point, if you were a gambling man, which Hart would Baltimore more likely get, the Cleveland one of the 90s, or the Texas one?

Don't forget that Hart had a few HOFers helping him out in Cleveland. Pretty lucky, IMO. It's hard to predict that type of talent in the draft or in a trade, so to say he was fortunate isn't a knock on him, it's the truth. ManRam, Thome, Belle, Sandy Alomar, and Kenny Lofton were a pretty historic core. It's one thing to recognize the talent in a player, but a whole 'nother thing to think a player has HOF potential.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Raises hand... rings bell... pushes buzzer...

Yes, but that was followed by bankruptcy, new ownership, and two world series appearances. Sounds like a 10year plan if you ask me.

[Tony-OH]

Here's one thing to ponder, Hart is known for developing young talent into GMs. Could Hart be a nice segue to a young high speed assistant?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3057755

I was going to be pleasantly shocked had the Orioles gone with Dipoto or Lacava because it would have been so out of character for Angelos. Unlike MacPhail, who had no need for a young hungry assistant to develop, Hart might be able to develop a guy that Angelos would be comfortable transitioning to down the line.

Either way, Hart is a good baseball man and if he and Buck work well together then hopefully they can turn things around.

[Sports Guy]

From Hart's wiki page:

In 1989, John Hart joined the Cleveland Indians as a special assignment scout, but then replaced Doc Edwards as manager for the final 19 games of the regular season (the team put up an 8-11 record during those games). For the next two seasons, Hart served as Director of Baseball Operations for the club. In September 1991, John Hart replaced Hank Peters as general manager and executive vice president of the Indians. During the next 10 years, the Indians were 870-681 under Hart. They won six of the seven possible American League Central division titles, which was introduced for the 1994 strike shortened season (1995–1999 and 2001) with appearances in the World Series in 1995 and 1997.

I think it is fair to say that helped oversee what was a great organization for a good stretch of time in the 90s. That's fine.

His teams in Texas were 26 games under 500 and never made the playoffs.

He has his good and bad points but how you can interview all of these young, top flight candidates with the backgrounds you need and then go to an older, retread guy is beyond me.

[crissfan172]

I'm not questioning Tony or his source, but I just can't figure out how we got from A to B. Hart's name hadn't even been mentioned in weeks, and then suddenly he's the favorite? It just makes no logical sense. I understand that we're the Orioles, and we should expect this by now, but I just can't understand how we got here. It would be like hearing that a 1B was deciding between Boston, LAA, and Baltimore and then suddenly choosing the Yankees.

Oh...wait....

[Frobby]

Don't forget that Hart had a few HOFers helping him out in Cleveland. Pretty lucky, IMO. It's hard to predict that type of talent in the draft or in a trade, so to say he was fortunate isn't a knock on him, it's the truth. ManRam, Thome, Belle, Sandy Alomar, and Kenny Lofton were a pretty historic core. It's one thing to recognize the talent in a player, but a whole 'nother thing to think a player has HOF potential.

Truth is, none of those players were drafted by Hart. He did trade for Lofton, in his first winter as GM, so he gets major credit for that. And, as I said, he gets a lot of credit for keeping many of his core guys together by tying them up early on in their careers.

[Dipper9]

I have no problem with Showalter being involved if what you're saying is indeed correct. It's just disappointing that after weeks of being linked to guys known for their reputation of scouting and development, the Orioles are instead interested in a man in part known for handing out awful contracts. I respect Hart and I'm sure he's a very good baseball mind, but I just don't think he's what the Orioles need.

Thanks for passing this information along. We all appreciate it.

Edit: I wonder how a certain poster will rationalize this comment:

This post wraps up my feelings to a tee.

[LookinUp]

His teams in Texas were 26 games under 500 and never made the playoffs.

I cannot agree with this argument. Hart is still with Texas. Did his influence stop immediately upon moving upstairs? Does he get credit for Levine, their int'l operation, etc.?

I don't think we know, but it seems pretty arbitrary to just pick out the first 4 years of his role without pointing to major organizational changes that happened after he left. In other words, did they get better because he moved upstairs, or did they get better because he helped build the right organization?

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

I'm not questioning Tony or his source, but I just can't figure out how we got from A to B. Hart's name hadn't even been mentioned in weeks, and then suddenly he's the favorite? It just makes no logical sense. I understand that we're the Orioles, and we should expect this by now, but I just can't understand how we got here. It would be like hearing that a 1B was deciding between Boston, LAA, and Baltimore and then suddenly choosing the Yankees.

Oh...wait....

PA: "Buck, I really like John Hart, let's hire him to replace Andy"

Buck: "I like him too. Maybe we should at least interview a couple other guys to see what else is out there"

PA: "Okay"

>Interviews take place<

PA: "Yeah, I'm just not comfortable handing the reigns over to one of these young guys. Let's go with Hart."

Buck: "Sounds good"

Seems to me, given that he was brought up over 2 months ago, that Hart has always been the fall back position/ comfortable decision. If hired, then the other guys couldn't instill enough faith from PA.